2014 questions
5th Wheeling
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26
Likes: 1
Thanks from me too - it is a perfect bait and switch sales technique: sell the customer on the features and benefits and then withhold the service (and cost) such that their only choice is to buy another. This is where Garmin and Tom Tom score. Alpine charges $3K plus for their set ups, does one upgrade after 2/3 years and that's it. I see Mercedes, Audi and BMW doing the same thing too whether they use an outside service like NAVTEQ or not. The only way around it is to hack the system with a similar data set after you have decoded and parsed the OS which is way beyond my energy level.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 4
From: Lakehills, TX
It's not a bait-and-switch technique. Neither by definition nor in spirit.
Maps cost money. They're not free. A tremendous amount of work goes into those maps. Auto/nav manufacturers either spend a ridiculous amount of money up front or just a substantial amount of money up front and then pay out royalties for every update they sell. The world changes, and the maps must be updated to reflect those changes. If the areas you care about aren't changing, then maybe don't worry about it. Otherwise stop complaining, or use alternative (and often ad-based) free versions like Google Maps on your phone that also require a continual internet connection.
Maps cost money. They're not free. A tremendous amount of work goes into those maps. Auto/nav manufacturers either spend a ridiculous amount of money up front or just a substantial amount of money up front and then pay out royalties for every update they sell. The world changes, and the maps must be updated to reflect those changes. If the areas you care about aren't changing, then maybe don't worry about it. Otherwise stop complaining, or use alternative (and often ad-based) free versions like Google Maps on your phone that also require a continual internet connection.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Mar 2012
Posts: 20,169
Likes: 16,002
From: Wisconsin
It's not a bait-and-switch technique. Neither by definition nor in spirit.
Maps cost money. They're not free. A tremendous amount of work goes into those maps. Auto/nav manufacturers either spend a ridiculous amount of money up front or just a substantial amount of money up front and then pay out royalties for every update they sell. The world changes, and the maps must be updated to reflect those changes. If the areas you care about aren't changing, then maybe don't worry about it. Otherwise stop complaining, or use alternative (and often ad-based) free versions like Google Maps on your phone that also require a continual internet connection.
Maps cost money. They're not free. A tremendous amount of work goes into those maps. Auto/nav manufacturers either spend a ridiculous amount of money up front or just a substantial amount of money up front and then pay out royalties for every update they sell. The world changes, and the maps must be updated to reflect those changes. If the areas you care about aren't changing, then maybe don't worry about it. Otherwise stop complaining, or use alternative (and often ad-based) free versions like Google Maps on your phone that also require a continual internet connection.
I agree. My only beef is the way they (Map producers) go to market. It's a PITA to find the right maps. Not for forum readers and people that are actively trying to find solutions to their challenges. It's the lazy people like my wife that just shrugs her shoulders and say that's just how it is. She'd never update her maps or her phone for crying out loud. I wish all of them would follow Garmin and do a subscription based service. Use a removable flash drive that can be updated via computer or through Bluetooth and your phone. The updates should be constant (like monthly?), not annually or beyond. That is just laziness on the map service provider's end. If they get the ball rolling, more people will update and pricing will do down.
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,591
Likes: 14
From: Pflugerville, tx
the OEM design didn't account for this rapid a change cycle, and it also puts pressure on the system. when they don't sell nav, and can't do the other value add functions (applink, ...) that bring in revenue, then the car manufacturers will also be forced to change their model.
I know there is pressure.. I've had a couple job offers to help delphi with their in car system design changes.
5th Wheeling
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26
Likes: 1
My comment on bait and switch did not imply that they owed me map updates (or ECU flashes) for free unless they choose to offer that as part of their maintenance program.
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 11,591
Likes: 14
From: Pflugerville, tx
yes, they have this in their equation.. it just doesn't provide the return they want.
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5th Wheeling
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 26
Likes: 1
So again thats the bait and switch piece because I bet there is a reference to updates through a web site or cd in the Owners Manual. They just don't go on to say that they will be infrequent and may cease at any time including during the model's production run. Unlike (say) the seat memory computer or a heater fan. Neither of which is essential but both are clearly part of the features and benefits of the purchase,
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 4
From: Lakehills, TX
No. Bait and switch is when they bring you in to look at a great value thing, using it as a lure, but then try to push something else on you instead. This is most commonly seen in the car world by a dealer offering some vehicle for a ridiculously low price, and when you show up at the dealership they say, "Sorry those are all gone, but take a look at our other offerings."
You thinking somewhere the word "updates" is mentioned in a manual doesn't mean that anyone's baiting and switching. You got what you paid for. If there are no updates yet, there are no updates yet. None are promised. Just because a particular component has the ability to be updated doesn't mean there are any updates to apply.
You thinking somewhere the word "updates" is mentioned in a manual doesn't mean that anyone's baiting and switching. You got what you paid for. If there are no updates yet, there are no updates yet. None are promised. Just because a particular component has the ability to be updated doesn't mean there are any updates to apply.
New User
Joined: Aug 2013
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Dual alternators at a discount.
Ok a few quick questions about ordering a 2014.
Is the dual alternator worth it or is the heavy duty one ok?
Is the ford navigation system worth it? I've only had XLT's but thinking of a lariat. Nice to have the nav in case I forget mine.
Thinking of ordering the Ford 5th wheel package, any thoughts on it. Will be my first 5th wheel hitch.
Is the dual alternator worth it or is the heavy duty one ok?
Is the ford navigation system worth it? I've only had XLT's but thinking of a lariat. Nice to have the nav in case I forget mine.
Thinking of ordering the Ford 5th wheel package, any thoughts on it. Will be my first 5th wheel hitch.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 2,015
Likes: 4
From: Lakehills, TX
That's only if you actually want what comes with the snow plow package, which isn't just higher electrical output but also stiffer springs. And it doesn't look like it includes a second alternator, only the upgraded alternator, which you may already have included anyway. Unless maybe their wording is suspect. From the Ford site: "The Snow Plow Prep Package includes computer-selected springs for snow plow application and extra-heavy-duty alternator with Power Stroke® V8 Turbo Diesel engine or heavy-duty alternator with gas engine (not available with Heavy Service Suspension Package; requires 4x4)."
Besides, the dual alternators option is only $380 MSRP.
Besides, the dual alternators option is only $380 MSRP.
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