So far I have replaced the injectors, injector harness, glow plugs, glow plug harnesses, stand pipes, D-Plugs, and IPR valve. I have a new fuel pump, but I have not replaced it yet because I can't get under the truck at the moment.

The air test being the only thing left, the wife is at the hydro-shop picking up the necessary parts to make the proper air test adapter. As far as the HPOP goes, I have read that the 03 and 04 models aren't notorious for failing HPOPS, but the o rings can deteriorate leaving a nasty leak. I know it is pure speculation at this point, however if the problem IS the HPOP, how hard is it to change out or repair the older 03-04 HPOPs? Not knowing the ins and outs of the older 6.0s, I am reading and watching horror videos about dropping transmissions, unbolting exhaust manifolds, removing up-pipes, hiring shamans, sacrificing virgins, etc. Just trying to get a feel for what I'm in for is all. So far this truck is into my pocket for $3,998.95 just in parts this month.

 

Just how much cranking have you done to get the engine started?

Josh

 

You have to remove the turbo and easy access from there. IF you have an early build, you may need Fords special tool # 303-755 to disconnect the HPOP discharge pipe. For a late build no special tools are needed. For information my 04 Excursion was built in 01/04 but it is a late build motor. I am just interpreting what is written in my shop manual for the late build so you can have the proper torque as well.

The turbo charger heat shield has to be removed so access to those bolts can be a pain, but doable.

Remove the 8 bolts on the cover and gently pry it up, I used a socket that fit into the turbo drain hole.

There are two bolts that need to be removed on top of the HPOP. Once removed the High Pressure discharge tube can swivel to the left and out of the way. Make sure you remove the oring on top of the discharge tube.

Remove the three HPOP mounting bolts and then the HPOP will come out. Be careful not to drop the bolts into the motor.

There are three orings that need to be replaced. Lower- between engine and HPOP, Upper- on HPOP at top, then the one on the HP discharge tube.

Torque the three HPOP mounting bolts to 18ftlbs.

Position the HP discharge tube back over HPOP making sure oring is in place. Torque the discharge tube bolts to 71inlbs.

Place sealant on the seams of the block and rear cover. Might want to do a Youtube search for SR MASTER TECH videos, he does this job on an newer 6.0. Different HPOP but same area to seal.

Reinstall HPOP cover with a new gasket.

Replace cover and torque bolts to 8 ftlbs.

Reinstall heat shield and turbo.

Tips for turbo removal: Loosen the bolts that connect the up pipes to the exhaust manifold. Spray some WD 40 on the clamps for down pipe and y pipe connections. Sometimes they can be a pain to pop off. When you reinstall tighten the exhaust manifold/up pipe bolts last. Again look at SR. Master Tech videos, he has lots of info that can help the shade tree mechanic.

Hopefully this helps you out. If you have an early build the special tool is used to pop off the HP discharge tube from the back of the motor.

For comparison purposes my old HPOP gear only moved about a quarter of a turn to the left or right, new one freely spins around no problem. No doubt mine failed internally. I also had higher aluminum in my oil analysis, which I believe was from my HPOP because it is all aluminum.

 

Are you shure about this^^^^^^^????

The thing here is you have to crank long enough so that the SGII will update. So set the SGII UPDATE RATE to FAST

Then next time you crank watch it after 2-4 seconds the SGII will Update

I usually have another Gauge Like RPM up on the SGII Screen so when I see the RPM Value Change I know that the SGII Has Updated

I bet its hitting the 85% area and you just may not see it

IIRC you hit the More More More on SGII till you get to the Rate setting click on it and change to fast



If the ICP sensor is in the Passengerside Valve cover then YES they have the Standpipes and Dummey Plugs

EDIT i misssed you said Issues so you might be correct that they have Less issues

WOW that sucks Sorrey to hear that

Thats why I spend alot of time to researching ways to run Diagnostics to help the Bank Account

Thats Alot of part throwing




Im curious to know this Too!!

Something tells me you have cranked for quite abit

so if you put all the crank time together (NOT Including starter Rest time) and your in the 2-3minutes of cranking area you still have issues somewhere

 

Double Post. Sorry

 

BLADES here’s the blow-by-blow. It has been painful to the wallet, but it isn't parts throwing.

Truck died on my way to work about three weeks ago. It turned out to be a hot crank, no restart. Let it set for twenty minutes and it was sluggish to get going, but it would finally start. Get it home and it has started every time since. I hooked the SGII up to it to get some readings and was able to determine that the #3 and #7 injectors were failing, so I figured it was a HPOS leak at the injector inlet seals, and since the injectors were starting to act up I decided it was time to replace them all. I replaced the four passenger side injectors last week and the truck started right up with less than 30 seconds of cranking. It ran fine, but was still showing a little blue smoke with diesel vapor, so I shut it down and replaced the driver's side injectors. I cranked on it for about two minutes and it finally started, but it never had any power. Full acceleration resulted in a climb in RPMs, but it was lazy and had no power. I decelerated the engine, but did not take my foot off of the accelerator pedal and it slowly reduced RPMs until it died. Total run time with all eight new injectors was less than thirty seconds. The fact that it started and ran fine after the first four injectors were installed "suggests" to me that the HPOP is working and its pressures were good at 590-600 at idle and even spiked to 3400 PSI under hard acceleration under load. The fact that it started acting stupid after the driver side injector swap led me to hypothesize that it was a leaky standpipe or D-Plug on the driver's side, hence the new pipes and plugs. The injector and glow plug harnesses were toasted. Their outsides were chafed and their wrappings coming un-done and the connectors to the FICM were literally falling apart. The plastic connectors were heat-baked and brittle and the slightest movement sent more pieces falling off. The GP harnesses had wires exposed. These were all necessary repairs. They are just starting to add up. The only item I have bought that wasn't absolutely necessary was the fuel pump. I bought it to replace my old one in case it was the parent cause of the injectors failing, and I didn't want to find that out proof-positive by roasting a new set of injectors due to low fuel pressure.
The information I provided was accurate according to the SGII. Its update speed is set to fast. As I crank the truck I can see the ICP go from ZERO to about 140 PSI over a thirty seconds cranking period, then slowly bleed back down after the cranking stops. That alone shows an oil leak SOME where. This is why I have elected to leave the air pressure test as the last step. Low pressure oil system appears to be fine as the in-dash oil pressure gauge shows within parameters after about two seconds of cranking. And I have done a LOT of cranking. Total cranking time, not counting breaks to let the starter cool, is somewhere between five and ten minutes. It didn't take this much cranking when I had the heads off to install the studs.
And to prove Murpy loves me, the wife just returned with no hydraulic fittings. Out of three local hydro-shops in a town FULL of oil field companies, none had the right fitting. I guess its time to break out the degree in redneck architecture and see what I can cobble together as a get-me-by.

 

Deleated Post Good Luck

 

I guess we are still not sure about the model of HPOS you have...I assumed if you changed your standpipes and dummy plugs that you have the model with the iCP in the passenger side valve cover. I have read somewhere that it is a good possibility of an o-ring leak in the standpipes or plugs if you can build pressure in the 350psi range...also, if you can only build in the 100psi range that the likelihood of an STC failure is high....and they are known to fail...when they feel like failing...anytime. Also, don't rule out the new IPR...I know, its new, however, anytime the internals of the engine are open to contamination there is always a possibility of dirt, debris entering the oil system, passing the filter and getting hurled at that IPR and damaging it. Re check that and STC, and the leak test if none of the above work...it may be the pump too. Please keep us apprised. That fitting should be readily available at any hydraulic shop that makes hoses, heavy equipment dealers, plow equipment dealers, cylinder repair shops etc. One thing is for sure...other than the FICM, when you get this going you should be good for another 150K. Good luck!

 

I forgot to mention the fuel pressure blue spring update kit...inexpensive and raises fuel pressure. You can do more research on it and is a popular upgrade. Also, when I got my m12 x 1.5 fitting I got a 2 foot hose made and put a ball valve on the end of it so i could control the air delivery better. That fitting will also fit in a test port where the fuel filter is beside the oil filter. You can monitor fuel pressure if you install a guage at the end of the hose...in case you were curious/concerned about the new injectors getting sufficient pressure. Cheers.

 

Thanks for the kind words and suggestions GB73. At this point I should point out that I have the "crossover" 2004 engine with the cast iron HPOP cover, but the ICP sensor is on the passender side oil rail rather than the IPR and ICP both on the HPOP cover like the 2003s do. The older 2003 and 2004 engines do not have the short branch tubes with Snap To Connect fittings. Instead, they have a longer branch tube that splits and supplies oil to both sides of the engine.



I'm hoping and praying that the leak isn't on any portion of the branch tube assembly. From what I have read so far it requires the removal of the transmission in order to remove the engine's rear inspection plate just to get the branch tube assembly out. Oh JOY!

I made my own ICP adapter. I took the old driver side ICP boss plug and drilled it out all the way through, then drilled the head large enough to tap it for 1/8" NPT, then screwed it onto a 1/8" NPT to 1/4" NPT female adapter for the MILTON 727 compressed air coupler to screw into. I finished up by silver soldering the whole assembly to prevent air leaks and un-intentional disassembly. As of an hour ago it was working like a pro. Now to tackle the IPR closure to finish the test. When I took out the old IPR I checked it for damage and function. It clicked when voltage was applied, and the screen was clean with no signs of pressure damage or debris. I went ahead and replaced it since I had to go to the trouble to remove it. My wife has the 2005 PSD, so a spare working IPR valve isn't bad insurance.

 

Folks I've decided to start a new thread about the air test results as these are separate issues.

 

Just to go back to the different pumps, Mike (m-chan68) gave us a good run down a while back. Here's a copy/paste:

07-15-2012, 11:42 AM

m-chan68

Okay, it seems that everyone is a little confused with regards to what HPOP is used with which model year engine, so I will do my best to clear things up. First, let's start of with the 2003 engine. This will be the model year engine that uses the early aluminum swash plate style HPOP, the earlier of the two IPR valves available for this engine (3C3Z-9C968-AA/CM-5054). The part number from Ford for the HPOP for this engine is 3C3Z-9A543-AARM.

Now onto the LATE-2004 engines. This is the model year that many changes were made, including the piston dome size (rendering glow plugs non-interchangeable between early and late engines), the switch to the wavy rails and the location of the ICP sensor that all of you are well aware of. However, this particular model year of engine still retained the use of the swash plate style HPOP with a different part number 4C3Z-9A543-AARM. If you were to place this pump side by side with an '03 model year engine pump, they would appear identical. And to be honest with you, I couldn't tell what the internal differences between the two pumps are, other than the information found on page #29 of this document:

DTS Articles - Coffee Table Books

The reason being, at the dealership level, we simply replace the pumps when there are issues with them. We don't disassemble them. And, if it matters, this particular model year engine uses the earlier IPR valve (3C3Z-9C968-AA/CM-5054), but uses the later model year injectors.

Now onto the 2005 and up engines. This is the style that originally used the dreaded STC fitting that everyone likes to change up to the one-piece updated branch tube connector (that were installed on 2008 and newer E-Series application engines from new). Not sure what else to say about this version of pump, other than the fact that it is a V-4 cast iron pump that has been far less problematic overall than the '03/'04 style pumps. And lastly, the part number for this pump is 5C3Z-9A543-C, and uses the later model year IPR valve (5C3Z-9C968-CA/CM-5126).

The only other thing I can think of that's worthy of mention is for '03/'04 owners thinking of switching to the '05 and newer style pumps, don't even think about it. For an '03 the later branch tube will not work with the '03 thread in style standpipes. And for you late '04 owners, changing out a branch tube is far more work than it's worth, just to put in a '05 style pump.

HOPEFULLY this clears things up.

Here's a link to the thread, more good info:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/1...firmation.html

 

And the verdict is.......?

I decided to just pull the HPOP cover and take a look-see. When I applied 100 PSI air to the oil rails I placed my finger over the HPOP outlet and air immediately backed through the pump and started pushing through to the oil cooler sump creating the dreaded gurgling/thumping noise. Not really surprised at this revelation I removed the pump, placed my ring finger and thumb over the pumps inlet and outlet holes and turned. A rough guestimate says it wouldn't build 20 PSI. I could turn it all day and the pump wont pull a decent vacuum or produce enough pressure to lift my thumb off of the outlet hole.

"She's dead, Jim."

And now you know the REST of the story.

 

Well at least you found the root of your problem, are you going with an OEM HPOP? That is what I would use but im an OEM kinda guy.

 

4C3Z-9A543-AARM is on the way to my local dealership. $681 exchanged. Tousley was $676.18 exchanged before shipping.

It would seem that the HPOP was the cause of the die-while-driving and hard restart symptoms. It just left me clueless how it could be producing a couple thousand pounds of pressure one minute, shut it down and two hours later be compeletly dead. All of the seals looked good except the discharge pipe to branch tube connector looked a little loose.