Hello everybody! I'm new to the forum, but have spent many hours here reading threads and looking at pictures others have posted. I was hoping someone here might be able to help me.
I'm the forth generation owner of a well used 1951 Ford F1.
I apologize In advance If this question has already been asked. I have searched previous post. But could not find any Information.
I want to buy a cheap set of rims and tires to drive on untill I decide weather to restore and use my old rims or go with a modern wider rim and tire setup.
My truck has stock break drums. When you remove the lug nuts and rim you still have three bolts which hold the hub to the backing plate. These bolt heads will keep many types of rims from mounting correctly.
I have been told these bolts serve no purpose and can be safely removed. I cant figure why these would be needed with five large lugs holding the hub In place.
Does anyone know If I can remove these bolts? If I can please let me know.

Thanks Jake

 

I had the same problem on mine. I removed them. Then put the new rims on.

I never really got a good answer to my ? .

I was told that I could drill out a small counter sunk hole and then mount them but I could not see myself drilling holes in my new rims.

Hope you get a good answer to the question of why they are or are not important.

 

I think those bolt are there for the same reason newer vehicles have little tinny ring clips on their brake drums, to hold the drums on during assembly. It's a lot easier, and faster on the line, if the drums aren't wobbling back and forth when you're trying to install the wheels. I see no other use for them.

 

It's more than having the drums flop around on the line. Complete rear axle assemblies are shipped from one factory to another. You need to have the drums secure during all kinds of transport, not just going down the final assembly line. That's the only reason for retaining hardware. They serve no further purpose if the wheels are bolted on tight.

PS; Welcome to the forum, Jake!

 

They also serve the purpose of keeping the drums in place while you have the tires off, for whatever reason, and someone accidently steps on the brake pedal and popping the wheel cylinders apart. Even while on the assembly line.

 

Hi Jake,
Welcome to FTE!

I think that you mean the three countersunk bolts that hold the drum to the hub don't you? I think what you have is part #359189-S shown in the first attached picture? I think that Bob, Wayne and others are correct in that they are used to hold the drums in place at the plant and anytime the wheel assys are removed. Note the clip that Bob mentioned in his post in the second picture. So the book shows both were used and have the same purpose.

I don't know if you tried to remove them but that straight slot head design won't take much torque and you may need to drill some of them out and re-tap the hole. The good news is that unless your drums are badly worn it will probably be easier on the front just to remove the dust cover and remove the single retaining nut that holds the bearing and hub-drum assembly in place. In fact if you do that you really don't need to remove the wheel just leave it attached to the hub-drum. It is heavier to handle but faster.

If you do need to remove those bolts for some reason (which you will in the rear on a 1/2 ton) you may want to replace the slot head design with the same bolt but with an allen head design. They are available from lots of sources. Let me know if you can't find them and I'll give you a couple places to try. I also put anti-seize compound on mine to save trouble later on. You rarely only do the same job once on the old trucks.

 

My F-2 has the counter sunk bolts, my F-1 has hex head bolts. I think they used different bolts for the sized models.

 

Interesting . . . My late 1950 build, St. Paul built F-2 has the countersunk bolts like yours and also Jake's F-1. Do you think yours came from the factory like that? If so it is interesting that the parts illustrations don't show that either. That would mean that the wheels must have some sort of indentation to accommodate those bolt heads?

 

Yes the F-1 bolts are just simple little easy-in and easy-out hex head bolts. Nothing really difficult about them. When I bought my F-1, it was 61 years old and had spent its entire life with 2 men from the same family. They still had BOTH the retaining clips AND those little bolts in place. I didn't have the heart to remove the bolts. So they're still there.

 

In parts catalog illustrations, hardware (bolts/screws/washers/nuts etc) part numbers may not have the complete suffix.

The text section of catalogs is needed to verify these numbers unless one has a Standard (hardware) Parts Catalog.

356080-S32 .. 1/2" Spring Nut-Retains drum to hub / F1/F2/F3 & 1953/72 F100 // 1949/59 and etc Passenger Cars / Obsolete

GREEN SALES CO. in Cincinnati OH has 1,292 = 800-543-4959.
------------------------------------------------------------
20311-S8 .. Bolt 5/16" -24 x 1/2" long ~ Retains drum to hub / F1 & 1953/55 F100 / Obsolete

L/M OLD PARTS STORE in Clearwater FL has 1 = 727-445-7551.
-------------------------------------------------------------
352644-S (replaced 359189-S8) .. Allen Head Flat Head Screw 3/8" -16 x 11/16" long ~ Retains drum to hub / F2 & 1953/56 F250 / Obsolete

GREEN SALES has 5.
-------------------
359189-S8 .. Screw 3/8" -16 x 21/32" long =

GREEN SALES has 3.

 

As far as I know they're stock. I've seen them on all the F-2 and 3s I've had. I've only had 4 F-1s, most of the parts trucks I've had, 17 at last count, were F-2s and up.

Come on Doc, they're only bolts!

 

Come on Bob, it's just a gas pedal!

 

.....

 

I want to thank everyone for all the responses.
I'm posting a few photos incase anyone else has the same question.
I cleaned the bolt heads in the photos so they can be seen.
Bare with me if I mess this up, it's my first attempt at posting pictures.

Three 5/16 bolts on break drum.


Stock 1951 F1 rims with raised areas stamped in to allow for the 1/4 or so the bolt heads stick out.


While I'm here, does anyone know if this is the correct location for jack stands on the rear of my truck? And can I leave it like this for extended periods of time?