I realize I am not expert on this subject but could it be possible that it is a fueling issue when this happens? That is to say that the PCM isn't commanding enough fuel at the RPM range/gear when it flutters thereby not providing enough exhaust gas to keep the turbo speed up? Just a thought.

 

If it is compressor stall, it is very likely caused by exactly that making it so there isn't enough back-pressure to provide the force the turbo needs to generate the pressure.

The verification of diagnosis would be to try a more fuel-rich tune.

 

Right now I am never really busy do to the disability status.
Damm how I want to be working again.


Mustang_309, What I think is going on is more of a turbine stall.
It's not a stall as in the turbine stops turning but the air flow stops
flowing for a brief period. It the same type of stall that any airfoil will
experience when the aerodynamics are out of whack.
You should hear a jet engine when it has a stall. Talk about a turbo fart.
If you in the seat you think the plane is coming down or the engine fell off.
You may also see a burst of flame out the tail cone area.
The PCM thinks it has X size of turbine and in fact it has Y. Y is larger
and at some times will have a problem.

Sean

 

Very good info guys... So the problem could either be too much exhaust flow and not enough air feeding the exhaust... Or not enough fuel to keep the turbine spinning,,, I was looking at the steed speed $1000 ex manifolds and they said they have up pipes as well and possibly go with the 4" turbo back kit, but that contradicts the back pressure theory. Or I could temporarily clamp some screens on the tailpipe just before I pull a grade n see if the ex is too open??? Could I be flowing too much air,, too easily???? I'd rather open the engine up,,, but how. Manifolds??? Intake???? Valves???? I'm not sold on the sct. $500 on something that might increase the fuel and cost me more in fuel is a gamble. I guess if it doesn't fix it then it can be put back to stock. If I put hard parts on that help it breathe,, that shouldn't hurt mileage???? It's all a gamble huh?? I am trying to wait to find someone with a manual trans that is experiencing this issue also. I might just get the AE out n recheck the ebp while its popping. I did that a while ago, but can't remember the exact numbers.

 

I think you need to use a tune with the power-max, you could sell the sct if it doesn't work. I'm sure matt would work with you on tweaking a p-max tune for the manual transmission.

 

I have a manual and I can get the same to happen if left in a gear that's too low of an rpm... I'm thinking it is related to not enough exhaust running through the turbo due to the low rpm. I have a pretty hot tune 140 horse from php its not tuned for my pmax yet though and this may be the reason for the what I call fuel cut. Maybe because of the difference in turbo and it needing a little more exhaust to turn it is causing the pcm to retard some timing or fuel. To be honest I noticed it more with my cold air intake and stock turbo. I thought maybe stuck vanes but the exhaust pressure sounds like a better reason. Think of it this way in an automatic if you are on a flat in O/D and start to climb a grade then the tranny will down shift. Now we all know it may not need to cause it has enough power but it does based on calculations of load, speed, pedal position, and map readings. Although down shifting a standard can be tedious at times I never have a problem when I do. I will soon have my custom tune rewritten for the pmax when I finish getting all my "toys" in so I only need it done one time. I know its kinda dumb... my cousin has a hopped up cummins that he can lug and haul coal all day but his truck doesn't take any readings from a ebp sensor like ours. And just incase you wanted to try a fix with a sensor here's what hasn't fixed mine. Ebp sensor, map sensor, cam and crank position sensors, vgt solenoid, and icp sensor. I have not tried the irp valve or mass air flow meter. I honestly don't think a stock tuner will cure it I think you would need a custom tune for one. Fyi redistricting the exhaust won't aid in turning the turbo any faster just the opposite. Your motor is one massive air pump and what goes in should come out and if there's a turbo involved you want as much out as you can possibly get.

 

Ok Turbine stall lesson part 2.
The stall is caused by a turbine turning too fas for the airflow.
The air starts to (for lack of a better work) pile up. Making the
engine flow more really won't address the problem. You would
have to make it pump a higher volume of air through the system.

Some guessing at this point. This is what I think may be going on.
For a turbine engine has a valve that will let some of the compressed air
bleed off before it even gets into the combustion portion of the engine.
Basically dumping some boost. Once the rest of the engine has reached a higher
flow rate the amount of bleed air is lowered.
This is what I think a tune for the MP turbo will do. It will adjust the VGT to allow for
less air to flow through the engine until the motor catches up. Because we don't
have a way to bleed air from the intake side you have to put less in until the engine
need is grater then increase the flow.

I think I said the same thing two ways there. I hope you get the basic idea. The airfoil
just can't keep the air moving through the system do to the excessive speed.

Now that everyone is lost and scratching there heads (me to) Off I go to other things.

Sean

P.S. All that time in school for aircraft and turbine can pay off.

 

I get the air pump phrase,,, so that would either need more air in on the intake side,, or not let the air out faster than it can b drawn in.

But finally,, someone with this prob. Lugging the engine was never an issue with the stock one. It handled the rpm range I run in without issues. I already did the atlas 40, n that raised my egt even more,, the powermax also raised it. A pull that stock I'd be seein 1100,, I'm now pushin 1250. Any more tuning,,, and im afraid I'd be backing out of the pedal cause of egt's. it'd b great to get a fix for this,, that's why I haven't ditched the pm yet.

So does urs pop when ur empty??? Mine does only if I lug it bad. Like 1200 rpm in high gear, which I never get that low. Mine pops even in 4th n 3rd if I got a heavy enough load on, and on a big enough grade. I've noticed it happens at about 1250 egt.

 

Yes mine will pop in any gear if I lug it for longer than oh... probably 7-8 seconds. I don't get your HIGHER egt temps with the power max though... mine lowered by a bit. My truck also popped with the stock turbo.Mine never did till I put a cold air intake on. SSo I guess I'm lost on the problem. My truck also has a weird rev ramping issue when it hits 3000rpm. It will ramp up past 3k to 3200k without any change in pedal position. And if i hold that rpm it will buck and ramp up again over and over but if i go above 3200rpm or below 3000rpm all is well I have a video here someplace of it doing it. Does yours do that at all?

 

Also... I just noticed you have an edge platinum. Is it a juice with attitude or the evolution? Either way power hungry performance can write you a custom tune for 60 bucks and if you want ecm roll backs or tune with egr delete its around 150 I think. I'm heading in the ecm roll back direction for my weird revving but even if you call them they might know a fix for the popping problem. SCT is a great tuner but Its not the only one capable of awesome custom tunes. Also... I'm running the atlas 80 ficm tune and unless I harp hard on it for 5 gears I never get egts higher than 13k or so but always cool down to 300 before turning off.

 

I don't know,,, I never run rpms that high. Mine also never popped until the pmax. Ever. How often do you run loaded? I definitely got higher egt's.

 

It is the platinum btw,,, it'd be nice to have a tune changed in the edge box. I tow in stage 2 n run mty in stage 5. So stages 1,3,4 are never used. I wouldn't care if one of those stages are completely changed,,, especially if it fixes the popping. I think we're gonna put a valve plumbed out of the Intake that I can open from in the cab at the time it would pop. After talking to Sean, it might be because there is turbulence and air backing up in the intake. It might give the air an alternate exit rather than back through the air filter. I'm willing to try anything that doesn't involve changing the programming. The power is fine,, I'd I didn't need to back outta it when it pops. Mine only does it when I'm loaded n calling for a lot of power.

I'm guessing I'd have to send the edge to them??? Where are they located? Do you know if they can flash it through the obd if I went to them? Lots of questions huh. Lol.

It sounds like you have a similar,,, kinda issue. I remember mine never ever popped like this with the stock one on,, no matter how low I lugged it. Mine will pop now no matter how fast or slow I go.

 

Does the tuner have a program or tune section from the menu list? Mine works like this, I have 3 "flash" tunes stock, tow and 140 custom. Once I flash I can then still use my 1-5 settings as normal. Thats how the edge juice with attitude works I'm not sure on the platinum though but a call to php would be best. Mine was flashed from my house on my computer on a file theu sent me. Check out powerhungryperformance.com