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Electric Fan conversion

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  #16  
Old 06-11-2013, 06:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Yahiko View Post
Cheezit did it look like a squirrel nest after is went snap?

I would also like to point out that you going to be really searching
hard high and low to find an electric fan that can put out the same CFM
for the size that will fit into this space.

Sean
perfectly smooth break, smelled like burnt rubber though and made a loud bank when it went. upside was i found the sqeeling sound when hot
 
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  #17  
Old 06-11-2013, 07:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Misky6.0 View Post
That is a GREAT picture - sort of looks like a jet engine turbine...
Yup one of Anthony's (run6.0run) pictures from his tear down. I looked at it for a while. Suitable for framing! I don't think my wife would let me hang it in the house though.
 
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  #18  
Old 06-12-2013, 03:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Rusty Axlerod View Post
Yup one of Anthony's (run6.0run) pictures from his tear down. I looked at it for a while. Suitable for framing! I don't think my wife would let me hang it in the house though.
It's more like a pin-up or the shark head some people hang in the shop.
It may look really cool. Now if you want to have some fun photoshop in
a Honda with that BIG fan under the hood.

Sean
 
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  #19  
Old 05-16-2016, 08:08 AM
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Older thread I know but I have an on topic dumb question. I personally never tow with my truck, just haul. Here in South Carolina we get HEAT. 95+ all summer plus humidity.

I've never heard the fan come on once. And my temps have never gotten over 198 No matter what I'm hauling. Wouldn't electric fans be more than enough for a daily driver??? The OP mentioned he was pulling a 30' toy hauler which is pretty big, esp when loaded.

The temp the fan engages is based off not only temp but other factors the PCM looks at from what I've read on here. But it seems to me that unless you are towing heavy your not going to get anywhere near the temp (215-220 ish) where the fan would even come on???

Is my logic crazy??
 
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  #20  
Old 05-16-2016, 10:48 AM
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I've had my fan come on sitting in Houston traffic
 
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  #21  
Old 05-16-2016, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Huxtable View Post

Is my logic crazy??
t
Not crazy! maybe a little misinformed though. If the clutch fan does NOT come on, where would the advantage be in the electric fans? A 6.0L engine compatible Flex-A-Lite fan system costs a fortune!

I am not thinking the electric fans would be "better".

Also, if you need to move a particular volume of air, it will take the same HP to turn the fan whether the driver motor is electric or the engine itself.

If it's electric, the engine still must turn the alternator, to make enough electrical power to turn the electric motor. If BOTH the alternator and the electric motor are 100% efficient, the engine STILL generates the same HP to turn the fan(s)

If BOTH the fan motor and alternator gets hot they're NOT 100% efficient (I.E. you're losing HP in both the motor and ALT. It's not huge, but it's not zero!!)

If you have a fan with no clutch or some sort of disconnect (like the 6.0L engine has)............ You might have an argument for electric fans.

The 6.0L fan doesn't run all the time at full driven speed. so there isn't a continuous loss of HP.

Also, there isn't many electrics that will more as much air as an engine driven fan fully engaged.

Electric fan manufacturers claim to save 15 hp.

I think that number might be exaggerated. (1hp = 746 watts....) 15hp with an electric motor would be 15 x 746 = approx 11,200 watts. 11.2 kw

Watts = Volts x Amps If your alternator is producing 14v, a 15hp (11.2kw) DC electric motor would require nearly 750 AMPS if it was 100% efficient!

They're NOT by the way. From the Engr Toolbox, Electrical Motor Efficiency

An electric motor (10-19hp) exhibits at around 85% efficiency. If your motor was only 85% efficient, you would need about 13.5kw (of power) to turn a fan that needed 15hp

13.5KW is 964 AMPS! at 14v

I really don't think ANY automotive electric fan system is drawing nearly 1000 AMPS....

So long story short, I don't think you're gonna save 15hp

If you're not going to save 15hp, you're really not going to save much fuel switching.

AND if you factor in the cost of the electrics, It would take quite a while to make it pay off.

Here's one for around $700 and I don't think it includes the controller that fools the Ford ECM into thinking there's a clutch there.

Also,
Direct-Fit Dual 15" Electric Fans
2003-2007 Ford Powerstroke 6.0L Diesel
Manufacturer: Flex-a-lite
Part # 274

  • NOTE: Fans ARE NOT designed for heavy towing
  • With Variable Speed Controller
  • Quicker Engine Warm Up
  • Up To 6,800 CFM Of Airflow
  • Direct-Fit Bolt-On Design
Flex-A-Lite 274 Dual Electric Fans | Ford 6.0L Powerstroke

So the above "system" is basically making your HD Ford truck far less usable and resell-able.

I think I would want to stay with the OEM fan!


Cheers,


Rick
 
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  #22  
Old 05-16-2016, 02:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Dr.Huxtable View Post
Older thread I know but I have an on topic dumb question. I personally never tow with my truck, just haul. Here in South Carolina we get HEAT. 95+ all summer plus humidity.

I've never heard the fan come on once. And my temps have never gotten over 198 No matter what I'm hauling. Wouldn't electric fans be more than enough for a daily driver??? The OP mentioned he was pulling a 30' toy hauler which is pretty big, esp when loaded.

The temp the fan engages is based off not only temp but other factors the PCM looks at from what I've read on here. But it seems to me that unless you are towing heavy your not going to get anywhere near the temp (215-220 ish) where the fan would even come on???

Is my logic crazy??
The fan will come on at various times and at various speeds, there have many discussions/debates about it, I can't remember the specifics right this second.

You only hear the fan when it hits full speed. The best way to know what the fan is doing is to watch the FSS on your scanguage.

-Full speed is fully locked up to engine rpm and the fan/water-pump turn faster than the engine so the FSS will be higher than your engine rpms. Generally you are under load and your rpm is high so the fan is LOUD.

-Medium is about half engine speed. Generally you can't heard it. I can feel it slightly in the power level. Only reason I knew it came on was I happened to be watching the FSS on the Scanguage and saw the fan rpms jump and felt the small decrease in power.

-Unlocked is ~500rpm plus/minus depending on engine rpm.

At idle with the AC, mine will frequently lock the fan up to full speed (~800rpm FSS), especially when the ambient temp is hot. You can't hear it as you're at idle. As soon as you hit the accelerator pedal it unlocks the clutch and you get a very short "whir" of the fan before the clutch fully disengages. Works quite well as my AC stays cold even in stop/go traffic.

My old 2002 F150 5.4 with a fully mechanical clutch the AC would start to get hot in stop/go traffic. That clutch only looked at airflow coming across the fan clutch. If the engine was running cool it would start to declutch, decreasing airflow. Fine for the engine, bad for the AC Condenser as it would loose airflow.

Interesting side note, I had a '95 BMW 5-series and it had both a mechanical and electric fan. Electric was used for getting the AC going when you first started up the engine and the coolant was cold but the AC needed airflow. It otherwise stayed off unless the engine got really got. AC never got hot in that car! Hmmm...now I gotta watch the Scanguage and see if Ford was smart enough to program this into the Superduty...
 
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  #23  
Old 05-16-2016, 10:35 PM
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Originally Posted by HT32BSX115 View Post
t
Not crazy! maybe a little misinformed though. If the clutch fan does NOT come on, where would the advantage be in the electric fans? A 6.0L engine compatible Flex-A-Lite fan system costs a fortune!

I am not thinking the electric fans would be "better".

Also, if you need to move a particular volume of air, it will take the same HP to turn the fan whether the driver motor is electric or the engine itself.

If it's electric, the engine still must turn the alternator, to make enough electrical power to turn the electric motor. If BOTH the alternator and the electric motor are 100% efficient, the engine STILL generates the same HP to turn the fan(s)

If BOTH the fan motor and alternator gets hot they're NOT 100% efficient (I.E. you're losing HP in both the motor and ALT. It's not huge, but it's not zero!!)

If you have a fan with no clutch or some sort of disconnect (like the 6.0L engine has)............ You might have an argument for electric fans.

The 6.0L fan doesn't run all the time at full driven speed. so there isn't a continuous loss of HP.

Also, there isn't many electrics that will more as much air as an engine driven fan fully engaged.

Electric fan manufacturers claim to save 15 hp.

I think that number might be exaggerated. (1hp = 746 watts....) 15hp with an electric motor would be 15 x 746 = approx 11,200 watts. 11.2 kw

Watts = Volts x Amps If your alternator is producing 14v, a 15hp (11.2kw) DC electric motor would require nearly 750 AMPS if it was 100% efficient!

They're NOT by the way. From the Engr Toolbox, Electrical Motor Efficiency

An electric motor (10-19hp) exhibits at around 85% efficiency. If your motor was only 85% efficient, you would need about 13.5kw (of power) to turn a fan that needed 15hp

13.5KW is 964 AMPS! at 14v

I really don't think ANY automotive electric fan system is drawing nearly 1000 AMPS....

So long story short, I don't think you're gonna save 15hp

If you're not going to save 15hp, you're really not going to save much fuel switching.

AND if you factor in the cost of the electrics, It would take quite a while to make it pay off.

Here's one for around $700 and I don't think it includes the controller that fools the Ford ECM into thinking there's a clutch there.

Also, Flex-A-Lite 274 Dual Electric Fans | Ford 6.0L Powerstroke

So the above "system" is basically making your HD Ford truck far less usable and resell-able.

I think I would want to stay with the OEM fan!


Cheers,


Rick
ThankS Rick! I'll be honest my intentions were not the usual gain in hp or mpg. I really just loved the photos I saw of how much space was gained by utilizing an electric setup. The ease of maintenance, access to banjo bolts, serp belt, water pump etc looked awesome. Any benefit of hp or mpg would just be icing on the cake.

But the price on that flex kit is outrageous! I was looking at making my own setup honestly, but I think you hit the nail on the head. My time and money would be better spent elsewhere.

Originally Posted by FiveOJester View Post
The fan will come on at various times and at various speeds, there have many discussions debates about it, I can remember the specifics.

You only hear the fan when it hits full speed. The best way to know what the fan is doing is to watch the FSS on your scanguage.

-Full speed is fully locked up to engine rpm and the fan/water-pump turn faster than the engine so the FSS will be higher than your engine rpms. Generally you are under load and your rpm is high so the fan is LOUD.

-Medium is about half engine speed. Generally you can't heard it. I can feel it slightly in the power level. Only reason I knew it came on was I happened to be watching the FSS on the Scanguage and saw the fan rpms jump and felt the small decrease in power.

-Unlocked is ~500rpm plus/minus depending on engine rpm.

At idle with the AC mine will frequently lock the fan up to full speed (~800rpm FSS), especially when the ambient temp is hot. You can't hear it as you're at idle. As soon as you hit the go accelerator pedal it unlocks the clutch and you get a very short "whir" of the fan before the clutch fully disengages. Works quite well as my AC stays cold even in stop/go traffic.

My old 2002 F150 5.4 with a fully mechanical clutch the AC would start to get hot in stop/go traffic. That clutch only looked at airflow coming across the fan clutch. If the engine was running cool it would start to declutch, decreasing airflow. Fine for the engine, bad for the AC Condenser as it would loose airflow.

Interesting side note, I had a '95 BMW 5-series and it had both a mechanical and electric fan. Electric was used for getting the AC going when you first started up the engine and the coolant was cold but the AC needed airflow. It otherwise stayed off unless the engine got really got. AC never got hot in that car! Hmmm...now I gotta watch the Scanguage and see if Ford was smart enough to program this into the Superduty...
I thought as I was writing that post that I bet money the fan is not a mere on/off switch and that it is more of a "variable speed" type of engagement. It all somewhat makes sense
 
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  #24  
Old 05-16-2016, 11:01 PM
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just a thought, I don't hear any of my fans driving, but after new injectors etc I take it out back and run it to 2500 after it warms up for 15 minutes and always hear the fan lock. Kina my way to burp em and double check for leaks etc.
 
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  #25  
Old 05-17-2016, 12:27 PM
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Originally Posted by 163junk View Post
just a thought, I don't hear any of my fans driving, but after new injectors etc I take it out back and run it to 2500 after it warms up for 15 minutes and always hear the fan lock. Kina my way to burp em and double check for leaks etc.
electric fans are usually off or running at a very low output driving on a flat surface, empty etc.

It doesn't take a lot of HP to push the air out of the way and overcome moving parts friction.

When the engine is not producing a lot of HP, it doesn't produce a lot of excess heat that must be removed by the radiator via airflow.

AND going down the road at 60 mph, results in a fair amount of airflow through the radiator.....usually more than enough even without a fan

OTOH, going up a steep grade loaded at near MAX GCVW at slow speed, it takes a LOT of airflow across that radiator to keep the temp from climbing.

It takes a fair amount of power to turn the fan(s)................. Flex-A-Lite indicats that their $700+ fans for the 6.0L engine will not cut it during HD towing.....

Many HD trucks use hydraulic motors to turn radiator fans and they are controlled automatically
 
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