Have a quick update... Just talked to the service manager at the dealer. He told me his tech said the oil was "pouring from the #8 injector". That was one I replaced years ago when I did my regulated return fuel mod. I replaced the #8 long lead injector with a standard injector as the long wasn't necessary after the mod. Injector may have been remanufactured with sub-par o-rings although I don't recall if it was a remanufactured or new injector. Maybe it was something I did during installation or just a coincidence. Anyway, that may explain my oil usage also.

So far it looks like their initial diagnosis was correct. Sounds like as the oil warmed up it leaked more causing a drop in HPOP pressure. I'll post again when I get it back tomorrow.
Steve

 

ken,

awesome info and wright up . so i noticed the size difference with the black to the new gray one as i just put my international one in sat . and i felt the difference in idle and it starts quicker. i feel like there is more low end power maybe in my head but it feels like it.did you shim yours up ?

 

Well... here's an update. I picked up my Excursion today after they replaced the injector o-rings. Driving home it died again. So, now I know that's not the problem. Too bad it cost over $1000 to find out, I hate having someone else work on my truck.

It's a pretty consistent problem, 15 miles or so of highway driving and it quits. It died this time when I was turning a corner just after leaving the interstate, may have done that another time also. Anyway, I called the dealer and they sent a tow truck. They were convinced it was the o-rings so the guy was shocked when I called him and said I was once again on the side of the road. I had a bad feeling about the repair, I asked him several times if they were sure that was the issue and brought up some of the other things I thought it may be as I had done when I took it in. He said the manager was aware of the problem and something would be done. I expressed my unhappiness, but was civil!

I told them from the start that I thought it may be the IPR, they said it was very rare for those to go bad on this motor. I would think the o-ring problem would be even rarer from what I have read? So now I'll wait to see what they find. I'm thinking IPR, cracked oil pickup tube, HPOP? I don't know, just tired of thinking about it. The only code it showed last time was low/high oil pressure or something like that.

Steve

 

I did not shim mine. I have a shim kit, and I plan on doing some tests to see if shimming it will make a difference or not. Just haven't had much time to get it done.

 

So did the dealer drive the truck and verify it ran (more than 15 miles) properly? I know awhile back I was reading about a similar issue. It turned out there was a damaged wire on the engine harness. I suspect that when the engine heated up the wires were more pliable and the conductor would contact a ground.

The most prevalent areas are at the IPR connector and along the drivers side valve cover. Unfortunately it is a tough deal to find. If it is the 5 volt VREF signal, it could easily cause all the sensors to be lost and the truck could die. If it is the IPR it will definitely die.

When it dies, does it do it at throttle or idle? I can understand it dying at idle, but if it is dying at driving RPM it would have to be either the IPR or CPS signal.

 

I don't know that they drove it any distance, we didn't speak long, but the way it sounded, they let it run for quite some time. I also let it idle for a good half hour after the problems started as I read on this board somewhere that if it was the IPR, it would die after 10-17 minutes at idle. I did not quit running. Don't know if that's true or not?

I did check the wiring some after the first time, but not thoroughly, mostly where the harness goes over the valve cover and at the sensors etc. I did put a piece of rubber material between the harness and valve cover to prevent chafing and or shorting. I mentioned the wiring harness when I initially took it in. I would (but should not) assume they would take a look, at least at the wiring under the valve covers where there are typically problems.

It seems that if it was a wiring problem, it may not be as consistent when it dies? The last two times it quit, the driving time and distance were nearly identical. It may have been the other times too, but I didn't take note at that time as I was sure it was the CPS. It was like clockwork, at least the last 2 times.

The first time it died, I don't recall whether I had my foot on it or not. I was pulling into a parking lot. It re-started and on the way home I was just approaching an intersection and depending on the traffic light, I may have been coasting, may have been accelerating, just don't recall. I think I rolled through the intersection when it died. The next time I was driving on a rural road and it quit. I was approaching a bend in the road, but I think I still had my foot on the throttle. The next time I was on the interstate (on a bridge no less), I had just turned my chip to the 80HP position from stock. Thought it may be an issue with the chip, but it was never in any mode but stock when it happened the other times. Not that that means a bunch if the chip were loose or defective. I did check it to be sure it was seated well. I probably should have removed it, but I was on the interstate, had to get to work and it was cold plus the tow truck was on the way. I figured when the chip kicked in with the increased power, that the HPOP pressure may have dropped or something. BTW, the shop was aware of the chip. When it quit today, I was turning a corner, I believe with foot off the accelerator.

So, the first time(s) it quit pulling into a parking lot. It started back up so I shut it down and did my shopping. It started back up and on the way home in died and would not start. I replaced the CPS on the side of the road then it started but it had obviously been sitting while I was changing the CPS. The second incident when it quit on the rural road, I walked home a couple of miles, borrowed a car to drive back and see if it would start and it did so I got it home and changed the CPS again. The third incident on the highway, I waited awhile but would not re-start. That's when it was towed to the dealer. They said it would not start the next day. This time, I don't know. I had my kids with me and couldn't wait around and mess with it.

One more thing, some time ago, there were a few times the truck didn't start right away, like a CPS issue, it just cranked. I waited a minute and it started. It quit doing that so I just dismissed it. It's also always had to turn over a few times before it starts, nothing bad, just doesn't pop right off. Just a note, I keep the truck in a heated garage. I hope all this makes sense, as I was writing, I kept remembering different issues so my brain is kind of scrambled. Any further ideas would be appreciated as I'm sure I will be on the phone with them tomorrow.

Thanks,
Steve

 

It would be interesting to run AE on it and just drive while logging data for various sensors. I am guessing you would be able to tell by looking at the data a little before it died.

 

Yeah, I was planning to buy AE when all this started but after today's bill it may be a bit. I am definitely getting AE however, looks like a great diagnostic tool. It will be really interesting to see how the shop handles this. They made it sound like they would take care of me, something most dealers I've dealt with haven't done. It really is too bad, I think these guys are pretty descent, we'll see...

 

Hopefully this is the final update. Although there was a bad injector o-ring and they were all replaced it was not the problem. The first thing I mentioned when I talked to service was since I had been through several CPS's, I would suspect the IPR. Well, that seems to be what it was. They changed it and did extensive test driving yesterday, the manager promised not to give it back until it was fixed. I made it home and seems to be fine. I was going to order an IPR the other day, could have got one for around $100, dealer cost $325... OUCH. They only charged for the part, no labor (couldn't be much) and picked up the towing bill. It was an expensive fix overall, but I was in a situation that left me at the dealer 15 miles from home and didn't have time to mess with it. Could have done everything myself for $300 or so but what do you do. Overall, I think the dealer was honest (first time I've felt that way) and handled the situation well even though it cost me big. I would probably go back to them if I had to.

One question, when I picked it up and started it, it blew quite a bit of blue smoke for maybe 10 seconds or so. Keep in mind it had already been driven a lot the previous day. I haven't tried another cold start yet but got thinking if one of the injector o-rings they installed may have gotten twisted or something? It did not do it before.

Steve

 

If they replaced the ipr you probably got air in the system. Just drive it for 50-100 miles and it should clear up.

 

That occurred to me, read something about that in a thread. That's why I didn't go back in and say anything to the service manager. I will give it some time.
Thanks,
Steve

 

Thanks for the many updates. Very helpful for those who may have problems in the future.

 

Well I am sorry it cost so much but I am happy for you that your truck is fixed. I thank you for the final update it was a learning experience for me too.

 

I have been buying spare parts and sensors for sometime now to have in my "first aid" kit. An IPR is one of the things that I do not have as a spare. After reading your issues and the uniqueness I think I will be ordering one soon.

Thanks for sharing!

 

Hey everyone,

FYI, there is an IPR on eBay right now for $99. You can generally pick up a new one on ebay for less than $150. I was going to pick one up prior, but since I just spent $350 w/ tax, I may hold off. There are some other sensors, fuses etc that I'll pick up and maintenance I need to perform. I'm pretty paranoid now, breaking down so many times has me thinking of the other weak links. Losing power in an interstate bridge isn't ideal! Two times I broke down, my kids were with me and in the midwest winter, that's not ideal either!

Thanks to everyone for the help! As always, there is more information and knowledgeable folks here then there is at the dealer in many cases. To be fair, in a conversation with the service manager, we did talk some about how the mods, while they increase power can put undo stress and wear on certain components. I think the techs are used to working on stock vehicles with stock problems. The IPR failure may be very uncommon in their shop, but in our little community it's fairly common. While their first course of diagnostic action was under the valve covers, our trouble shooting would probably take a different path. That's why I suggested the IPR right off. It's easy to understand and I don't disparage the technicians, they certainly know more than I as I'm not a mechanic. I also know there are many service techs on this board, I'm sure very good ones. I believe all of the collective knowledge here is is superior as we all have common mods and vast combined experience with certain issues.

So I spent a bunch on injector o-rings, but one had in fact failed. Although it wasn't the fix it was a problem I wasn't aware of and hopefully will solve my oil consumption issue and prevent future issues. At least I know I have new o-rings. I would love to raise hell at the shop, but I believe they did their best according to their experiences and made it a priority to get me back on the road. I seriously think the service manager was driving the Excursion a good part of the day. The last thing he said to me was, "you know my number but if it still isn't fixed, I think I'll put a bullet in my head"! It made me laugh and also recognize this was a bit hard on them too. I think we are too hard on dealerships and shops sometimes. Sure, some of them just plain don't know what they are doing or want to take advantage, it's that way in any business. We just need to find good reputable service facilities when we need them.

As much as I would like to wrench on the truck myself, there is too much going on in my life to always have time. It's good to know I can come here not only to fix an issue myself but to gain the knowledge so I can effectively communicate with the service facility. It certainly helps (in most cases) to go in with some valid knowledge of the problem, much less likely that they will take advantage. Again, thanks to everyone for their input! The good people on this board have helped me countless times over the years.



Steve