Front Brake Rotor Studs (problem)
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Front Brake Rotor Studs (problem)
Hello,
1994 Explorer - 4.0L pushrod - ABS brakes.
Has anyone ever seen anything like this before...
I was removing the front wheels to do the brakes and wheel bearings. The hubs were "chattering" a little and I thought we could do a small overhaul of the front end. I went to remove the passenger side tire and could only get two of the five lug nuts off. The other three just spun. The studs were rotating with the lug nuts. They were actaully loose where they were supposed to be seated in the rotor.
I ended up grinding the tips off the lugnuts (chrome type) to access the studs. I drilled holes in the studs, tapped the holes, threaded in a 10mm bolt into the stud and used that as a clockwise counter to turn for the lug nut. I then had to buy new rotors as one was obviously shot.
I have no idea how this could have come about. Warped rotor? Slack bearings? Alignment out? Hub retaining nut too loose?
Anybody seen this before? Any comments or theories would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Gil
1994 Explorer - 4.0L pushrod - ABS brakes.
Has anyone ever seen anything like this before...
I was removing the front wheels to do the brakes and wheel bearings. The hubs were "chattering" a little and I thought we could do a small overhaul of the front end. I went to remove the passenger side tire and could only get two of the five lug nuts off. The other three just spun. The studs were rotating with the lug nuts. They were actaully loose where they were supposed to be seated in the rotor.
I ended up grinding the tips off the lugnuts (chrome type) to access the studs. I drilled holes in the studs, tapped the holes, threaded in a 10mm bolt into the stud and used that as a clockwise counter to turn for the lug nut. I then had to buy new rotors as one was obviously shot.
I have no idea how this could have come about. Warped rotor? Slack bearings? Alignment out? Hub retaining nut too loose?
Anybody seen this before? Any comments or theories would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Gil
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this happened to me this weekend but on a boat trailer i know mine was caused by sitting to long and being in and out of water.it will help if put anti seize on your studs before you put the nuts on they will all come off easily next time,this will work if yours were corroded
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I have had the wheels off several times recently (through the summer) as I was building this truck for a winter beater. The last time I had the wheels off was when I did the ball joints (two months ago). I use anti-seize every time. The drivers side lug nuts came straight off without an issue and two of the five on the passenger side too (as I expected). Why three of the studs broke away from the rotor mounts I still can't explain. It was definately not due to wrenching on the lug nuts as they were not rusted, corroded or frozen.
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From: Phoenix
Hey Gil. I just went out and looked at my 2 old rotors on the garage floor. Had to replace them last week 'cause they were too thin and could not be turned again. These studs are pressed in, from the looks.
I think what might have happened is that you tightened them down too much when you put the tire back on. Since you live in a relatively cold environment (Canada), you will get a big delta in hot and cold temperature. The disc brakes genearate a lot of heat. So much that in the summer here in Phoenix, you will burn your skin on the 4x4 hub or even the aluminum wheel if you touch them after a trip across town.
When you torque the lug nuts, you are trying to pull the lugs out of the rotors. With hot disc brake temps, park it for the night and -20 F outside temps, there is a lot of thermal cycling going on - hot/cold, hot/cold. With the lugs trying to get pulled out bu the nuts, it's like gently tapping and pulling, all the time.
Try to remove the nuts and there is nothing to hold back the torque of the lug wrench - spin.
I think what might have happened is that you tightened them down too much when you put the tire back on. Since you live in a relatively cold environment (Canada), you will get a big delta in hot and cold temperature. The disc brakes genearate a lot of heat. So much that in the summer here in Phoenix, you will burn your skin on the 4x4 hub or even the aluminum wheel if you touch them after a trip across town.
When you torque the lug nuts, you are trying to pull the lugs out of the rotors. With hot disc brake temps, park it for the night and -20 F outside temps, there is a lot of thermal cycling going on - hot/cold, hot/cold. With the lugs trying to get pulled out bu the nuts, it's like gently tapping and pulling, all the time.
Try to remove the nuts and there is nothing to hold back the torque of the lug wrench - spin.
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From: Phoenix
PS Gil - I finally got to my 4 ball joints. It wasn't as hard as you made out. But then again, it's 80 degrees F right now down here. There was little to no rust. I just banged them out and back in with a hammer and a big socket. No big deal. I had to do the tranny though too - that was a PITA for sure. But I still have a terrible vibration...maybe I'll get it aligned to see if that helps.
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Whenever I put the wheels back on I spin the lugnuts on with the gun until they are just snug and then torque them down to spec with a torque wrench. I use anti-seize too as I'm always paranoid of having stuck lugnuts when changing a tire on the highway.
This was definately one side. The drivers side was perfectly fine.
Now that I have done the ball joints, brakes (again) and the main wheel bearings things seem to be OK. I'll keep an eye on the passenger side but I still have no idea what happened. I'll look at the hub cover bearings next time the wheels are off just in case.
I'm pleased that your ball joints were not as much of a battle as mine. I have heard people say they come off with little or no effort and others that say it's a nightmare. Maybe salt, snow, rain up here makes them a little worse for wear.
This was definately one side. The drivers side was perfectly fine.
Now that I have done the ball joints, brakes (again) and the main wheel bearings things seem to be OK. I'll keep an eye on the passenger side but I still have no idea what happened. I'll look at the hub cover bearings next time the wheels are off just in case.
I'm pleased that your ball joints were not as much of a battle as mine. I have heard people say they come off with little or no effort and others that say it's a nightmare. Maybe salt, snow, rain up here makes them a little worse for wear.
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Yup that's it. Not too much snow down here in Pheonix. so far, the bigest thig on this was pulling the tranny due to the shear mass and I only have 2 hands.
On your lug studs, a mechanical failure like that has to be analyzed by cause/effect paretos. What could possible make that happen and what's the probability? One other thing would be vibration. Wierd though, I've never seen this on these cars. My old Cougar I broke a couple lugs. 350 HP though...different story.
On your lug studs, a mechanical failure like that has to be analyzed by cause/effect paretos. What could possible make that happen and what's the probability? One other thing would be vibration. Wierd though, I've never seen this on these cars. My old Cougar I broke a couple lugs. 350 HP though...different story.
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I think it depends on the application. Torquing down an intake manifold for example or rod cap bearings would require more exact and precise control of the torque wrench. You want to get those torques right. Lugnut specs are 80 -100 ft lbs. I don't think anti-seize will affect the torque enough to be an issue. I only torque them so I don't over-tighten. Many people don't even bother to torque lug nuts (ever see the guys at the shop with the gun reefing those boys on?). Even with anti seize and the right torque application they can be a little stiff coming off especially in the winter and spring months.
Ever been stuck on a major highway with children in the back seat? It's a scary place to be. I want that tire to come off quick and simple.
Maybe we should start a new thread and poll the FTE!!
Ever been stuck on a major highway with children in the back seat? It's a scary place to be. I want that tire to come off quick and simple.
Maybe we should start a new thread and poll the FTE!!
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From: Phoenix
naah - you had an anomoly. I've never heard that before. As far as torque lugs. I use my 16" breaker bar and go until "feels about right". Never had a problem but I've been changing tires for 24 years now.
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