Be very careful how you word things particularly with what is in bold. If they word it like you just did know as saying that headgaskets need extra warranty. You might still be screwed. The headbolts present more issues then do the gaskets. I'm still running stock gaskets well beyond what most stock gaskets have to put up with and they have held up for over 3 yrs now. Dealing with a peak boost of 51psi.

Now you might think I'm being a pain in the *** stickler with regard to wording, but wording of documents is oh so important. While most people might assume what you really meant(or you might think it really is a headgasket issue), you don't get that benefit when something is put down on the confines of paper.

 

Just curious how many of you all think that Ford has handled the 6.0 problems correctly? Where is Navistar in all of this? How can these 2 companies just walk away from 6.0 owners scott free days after warranty expires on known problematic issues? It's just not right!

 

Ford and International organization to recall the issues on the 6.0L

Is what I have to say.


Even though in my case, life was good, no major issues, the fixed it before I had issues.

but for 1,000's of others are about buying a ford

 

There is not one person that will always be satisfied with how things are handles. There will always be someone that is screwed.

Now, I am not saying that I think they did or didn't handle things correctly.

Here is the problem though, how many of those that are warranty claims can you point out were legit from those that snuck one(or more) by with false claims(running tuners, running a/m intakes etc?)? Can you seperate those? If it can truly be remotely shown that something other then factory concerns could have caused the problem, then you have to throw that claim out. I'm willing to bet the warranty claims would be much lower. Even if you don't throw those out, compare the warranty claims to those that were produced during the 6.0s entire run, what is the breakdown?

Sure, a lot of people have had issues, but we aren't talking about the issues like people had with the 02-04 mustangs that no matter what had problems with the too thin passenger gaskets.

This is not a black and white issue, this is very much a charcoal issue.

 

The OP stated in a previous thread that he has an Edge. I assume that means a tuner and not just gauges.

Lets just assume for now that it was a tuner and he failed to mention that to the dealership or Ford. Clearly the Techs have a way of identifying that a tuner had been installed. Is this enough for Ford to act the way they are? Clearly the manual says that they can and will deny coverage when performance mods are used. Ford has had to deal with thousands of falsehood cases. I have seen MULITIPLE threads from folks asking how to purposely blow head gaskets so they could get studs.

As Tex indicates, it is not hard seeing why Ford takes a hard stance. It is sad that some innocent and unlucky people end up w/ the shaft because of it. But that is why we need to keep a cool head when we know we have a legitimate case (as Tennesseepowerstroke said, AND we also MUST be persistent). However, the folks that demand, yell, etc, and then are shown to have lied about chips and tuners, tend to ruin it for the rest.

Now .... who is to blame? What would you do in Ford's position? Lets just say it was your automotive manufacturing company? IMO most of the people that yell and accuse would probably rip the rest of us off worse than Ford ever did (yes I agree that it does happen to some).

With regards to the 6.0L being junk -
There are MANY, MANY reliable 6.0L's on the road. I think folks know my opinion on the subject, but if it really were the junk some claim then something will eventually happen about it (but I seriously doubt that it ever will). BTW - every forum (Dodge, GM, etc) has a few folks on there that claim that their vehicle is junk. The 6.0L clearly has had more issues, but Ford spent a TON in warranty repairs for many folks. It is still hard to troubleshoot the 6.0L - even after all these years of TSB's and instructional courses. There are still many cases of mis-diagnosis and questionable repair. Is this Ford's issue or the dealerships? What are the good/honest dealerships (and that is most of them IMO) to do w/ cases of improper maintenance and performance mods (knowing that Ford will deny the warranty work)?

 

Lets just say that you had a tuner and you did not upgrade the fuel delivery pressure. You constantly "romped" on your truck because you liked the black smoke. Then your turbo sticks. What can cause it?

Bad injectors
Low fuel pressure
Too much idling at 750 rpm
Bad tune
Biased sensors
Poor fuel (low cetane, water in the fuel, biological growth, etc)
Plugged fuel filters from too long of an interval or cheap aftermarket ones
Too thick or aerated oil - affecting the injectors
Not enough air (possibly from a clogged or wet filter, sensor)
Low voltage and weak FICM (possibly from weak or bad batteries or alternator)

Probably a few others, but this is a start.

 

So are tuners taking out the oil coolers, which in turn take out the EGR coolers? Tons and tons of guys are going by Fords maintenance schedule and then their oil coolers come up all plugged up with crap from the cooling system! Of course flushing sooner or installing a coolant filter can help but if that's the case then don't represent the cooling system as being a 100K mile maintenance interval! Actually though, you should easily be able to go 100K miles if the truck were something other than a 6.0 power stroke! This is the type of issues that anger lots of people when not handled correctly. In my case my truck had been serviced at the dealership the whole time and the truck was bone stock and even looks like brand new and always garaged. Even in this case Ford walked on me when my truck broke down a couple of days out of warranty! I never missed any Ford scheduled maintenance on my truck and never ran a tuner! Nearly every single guy that installed a coolant filter is catching tons of crap that would take out an oil cooler at some point! Why isn't their a stock coolant filter on this truck? On and on and on it goes, frickin Ford! I love my Excursion and this 6.0 runs nice, but just because I like my truck a lot, doesn't mean I'll jump to Fords defense! I think something need to be done no question! I guarantee that people have left Ford and bought GM or Dodge since they got burned by this engine! Had my situation been handled differently I would be on here saying how great Ford is that they paid for even 1/2 of my repair and I would consider buying another Ford because they took care of me. Now, I don't know, this will definitely have me looking at other Diesels when the time comes for another truck!

 

Scott I hear ya and I agree with most of what you said. When I had my 04 the dealer walked all over me too. If I would have taken it to another dealer I would still have that truck. Was that my fault or Fords. I say Fords cause I feel the dealer I bought my truck from, and all dealers for that matter should have competint techs that should be able to diagnose and repair Fords products.

With my 06, I learned a lot from my 04 btw, I decided I would take a different approach, buy from another dealer and service it myself, and go back to said dealer for warranty work. I have modded my truck and they have been more than fair nd always have fixed the truck when it was broke. Its been a good truck and very reliable even with the mods I have done.

My probelm with this thread is the OP, I feel, is not telling us the whole story. But thats just me. If a dealer would walk away from a repair they made a week prior, and the same concern is back there is something else going on, maybe I read too much into things.

I am in a tough spot right now, the wife signed my permission slip to buy a new truck, I would love a 2011, but the fear of the unknown and how are the techs prepared for these totally new animals is what prevents me from jumping. I would consider a D-max/allison combo, but the truck that its put in doesnt impress me.

My truck is paid for, I have just under 63k on so I will hang on to it, ride it out, and see how the 6.7 goes, cause that looks like 1 bad mamma jamma. I hate to say this but I kinda like the looks of the Dodge HD too?

Thanks for listening,

Sarge

 

I have heard the arguement that yes, tuners could be contributing to oil cooler failures. The mechanism is through the EGR valve (if they are still functional on the truck) and the EGR cooler. If exhaust gasses are higher in temperature and/or flow, then the extreme temperatures in the EGR cooler can be accelerating the silica drop-out. If turbo's stick and the EGT's go way up, then the recycled exhaust gasses hits the EGR cooler and again, silica drop-out. None of this is fact, just speculation. Personally, I do believe the issues discussed above can accelerate the issue.

IMO, you identify one of probably only 3 issues that I think are perhaps valid arguements against Ford and the design (excluding some little stuff):
1. The early heads that had quality issues (warped, torquing, etc). This isn't a design issue, but it caused a lot of problems.
2. The coolant issue (plugged oil coolers as you mentioned
3. The STC fitting on 05-07 model years.

That being said, I had issues with spark plugs and cam phasors on the 5.4L. I also had issues w/ the tranny on the 7.3L. Dodge and GM have their own issues.

The key thing IMO is if the Dealership and/or Ford take a "helping" position when these things happen.

In all of my experiences they have! I was denied warranty coverage on a FICM and showed them the warranty statement (including the emissions warranty). They agreed. Ford reduced charges by about 1/3 for me on both the spark plug and the cam phasor issues.

Interesting how experiences can be so different.

 

I do not use nor do I advocate the installation of a coolant filture. This is perhaps the biggest issue that people would disagree with me versus other things, but that's my stance on that.

The oil cooler issue as well as the headbolt issue are more quality control then they are a design issue. However, coolers can fail if the owner does something that they shouldn't do. How do you really weed out those that have a legit concern versus those that are trying to defraud Ford(yes that is what "you" are doing, if Ford is doing warranty repairs and "you" lied to them about not having modifications).

Do I agree with it, do I like it.... not at all. Don't think I'm trying to make Ford/International out to be virgins here, I'm not. What I'm trying to impress upon is the fact that this issue specifically isn't black and white in all cases and it's because of the people that did the wrong thing and got away with it that everyone suffers.

 

I'm not using a coolant filter either nor will I! My Bulletproof oil cooler doesn't have the small passages in it like the stock oil cooler. Shouldn't have another oil cooler issue again!

 

It's not the passageways themselves that's the problem. It's the casting sand that's left behind if they don't get it all out. To me that's a quality control issue, not a design flaw. Mine works fine and it has the small passage ways. Smaller can be an issue, but in of itself, it isn't a problem.

 

I agree that I shouldn't have to have one, but my $100 filter pulled a lot of solids out of the coolant AND I don't seem to have an oil cooler issue.

Pretty cheap so far! (and I'm not even mad at Ford)

 

What is it you think is a bad idea about the coolant filter?

 

I also do not have a coolant filter and never had any EGR/oil cooler problems at 130,000 miles. I have been monitoring the temperatures since last Dec. and never see any more spread then 5-6 in summer and 2-3 in colder weather. Is this sand issue also plugging up any heater cores or radiators?