Well Larry we have a lot in agreement on this subject, I'm just not as convinced by the evidence that the risk is this great. That's all I'm saying.

 

check this out! this would fix the painting at home problems I would think....

Forced-Air Breathing Apparatus for Painting

 

That's pretty down and dirty.
Interesting tho that he is painting with such a device in an attached garage. I wonder what he is using to protect the rest of his family from the fumes? At least put such a device outside where it can draw fresh air far away from any exhaust fan outlet.

 

While I know this subject started as Urathane paints I thinks it been broadened a little to include all painting of cars in a way. And that's fine.

I would say fresh air/ventilation/exhaust fans/neighbors etc. One has to give it some thought and planning. And regarding any kind of fresh air supply--I've used the HobbyAir pump/etc--and been very happy with it.

I put it at a distance of about 40 from the shop, and it seems to pump plenty of air. In fact this particular setup pumps a huge volume of air. If you've never used one I should point out that its not just a little whisper of outside air coming to your face and mask. Its a huge wind blowing in your face. And I guess whatever paint your using--this is a good thing to use. The mask is designed to allow a big volume of fresh air to flow all over your face and not just into your nose and mouth. Its a little like your standing in front of a fan. Its that much air.

 

And while I'm thinking about it, just in general its been my experience that automotive paint shops are really good and often required to give you some really detailed explicit safety data sheets. I've mostly dealt with PPG products because that's what the local store sells. But back in the 70's the same store was a Dupont automotive paint dealer and I had good luck with that paint too.

And of course this will vary with the type paint your using, but when I paint a truck I only do a little section each time I paint. For instance if you're using a lacquer or some type epoxy or polyurathane paint etc in general these paints dry hard and quickly. Because of that they're easier to use-in general-for me. And it makes it practical to paint maybe just the inside of the bed one day. And then on another day just paint the inside of the cab. Or another time just the outside of the bed etc. One could do this for weeks etc.

When I painted with standard enamel paints and what's called reducers this was pretty much impossible--for me anyway. Being that the enamels in the past anyway and most existing now I suppose don't dry fast and never get as hard as the other paints I mentioned above. Usually with an enamel one has to paint the "whole" thing. Its just so slow drying/any kind of overspray on already painted areas ruins it-pretty much because its not generally meant to be lightly sanded and polished etc. As one can do with the lacquers and other very hard paints etc. When I painted enamels I pretty much painted anything underneath/wheel wells/motor area etc-underneath hood/and did these areas over weeks and then closed the trucks doors and painted the entire exterior and maybe even the bed inside all in one step. That stuff varies but you want a plan.

But in general my plan is to always paint as small a section as possible and then clean up. That's why i find it easier to use the paints that "really" harden. I can sand them if i get runs or bad areas and just paintem again. I can't do that with the enamels I'ved used. Not easily--one would have to repaint the entire area.

But I think its safer for me to be brief and paint small areas over a period of weeks etc. For instance I'll paint a "single stage"(this means its not a base coat clearcoat-its all in one application) polyurathane with 2 or maybe 3 coats inside the bed waiting(outside the shop) the 10 or so minutes between coats and then "get out". For must of us without a pro shop, its important not to hang around while the paint is drying and admire your work. That's where a lot of amateurs go wrong. While the paint is drying and for 1hour or more depending on the type of paint it continues to emit plenty of that harmful stuff you don't want. So I know its hard but get of there. And stay out for a few hours/ open all the doors/window leave the fans running and keep using your fresh air setup even when cleaning your gun etc. In fact as much as practical clean your gun outside the painting area if your hose is long enough etc.

I know its almost impossible to not go in there and get off that masking tape and newspaper and admire your new paint after so many months of body work prep etc/but its safer and you'll get a better job if you let that paint harden/dry for a couple hours before you remove any of this stuff. If there's any paint tackiness etc around that masking tape you can damage your new paint by trying to remove it too soon. Let the paint dry. Better for your health and the paint job too.

And like me you might want to keep some clothes that you use just for painting/I keep them with my spray equipment etc. One should change clothes and put this stuff in the wash. Dont' keep wearing it. Its not a good idea.

I'm sorry this post is so lengthy and it's not meant to be a complete list of all the safety tips someone would need when painting a car with any kind of atomized spray-polyurathane or otherwise, but it gives you on overview of some of the precautions that are part of a good plan. If you plan to paint your own truck I can tell you I have probably 5+books on car painting plus stacks of Mfg health safety data sheets/and I reread this stuff everytime I paint something, because i don't do it everyday and its important to have a bit of a checklist.

 

Well said Tom. The paint distributors are required by law to give you MSD sheets when you buy any chemical that might be hazardous in the least to you or the environment. There may be an MSD out there for plain water.
Seriously, read and heed them, don't just use them for scratch paper for doodling or wrapping up your used chewing gum.

 

One of many ingredients in paint.
As I said before read the ingredients and Google. Feel free to paint and breath this to your hearts content. I will not recommend anyone painting without a outside air source period. If you do this much, you will have effects from it.
I have had outside air system for many years and can promise you I have effects from before. I have kidney and lung issues from solvents and am going to die from them.
I don't know how much it takes. I know PPG,and Dupont say do not spray without outside air system. They make this stuff and really who do you want to listen to? Them or your buddy telling you he's done it for years and is ok.


MSDS Number: T3913 * * * * * Effective Date: 09/16/09 * * * * * Supercedes: 12/07/07 <!-- $.PAGEFooter = yes --> <!-- $.HEADERSTART = 50 --> <!-- $.HEADERALIGN = L --> <!-- $.TEXTSTART = 130 --> <!-- $.LEFTMARGIN = 75 --> <!-- $.ORIENTATION = portrait --> <!-- $.FORM = MBILMSDS --> <!-- $.PAGEHEADERA = TOLUENE --> <!-- $.PAGEHEADERB = Effective Date: 9/16/2009 Supersedes 12/7/2007 --> <!-- $.NOPRINT --> <hr>
<!-- $.PRINT --> <hr> TOLUENE

<hr> 1. Product Identification
<hr> 2. Composition/Information on Ingredients



Ingredient CAS No Percent Hazardous
--------------------------------------- ------------ ------------ ---------

Toluene 108-88-3 100% Yes

</pre> <hr> 3. Hazards Identification
<hr> 4. First Aid Measures

Inhalation:
If inhaled, remove to fresh air. If not breathing, give artificial respiration. If breathing is difficult, give oxygen. CALL A PHYSICIAN IMMEDIATELY.
Ingestion:
Aspiration hazard. If swallowed, DO NOT INDUCE VOMITING. Give large quantities of water. Never give anything by mouth to an unconscious person. Get medical attention immediately. If vomiting occurs, keep head below hips to prevent aspiration into lungs.
Skin Contact:
In case of contact, immediately flush skin with plenty of soap and water for at least 15 minutes while removing contaminated clothing and shoes. Wash clothing before reuse. Call a physician immediately.
Eye Contact:
Immediately flush eyes with plenty of water for at least 15 minutes, lifting lower and upper eyelids occasionally. Get medical attention immediately.

 

And that's just the more common stuff, toluene is commonly used in paint thinners and for painting equipment cleanup. The paint fumes aren't the only hazards.

 

Just do it. You take more of a risk driving down the road with all the idiots talking or texting or puttin on makeup than you will painting your own truck frame once.

 

Yes, do it, but only with the proper safety equipment and understanding of what you are working with. Otherwise you might as well ride a bicycle the wrong way down the interstate. You might be lucky enough to get away with it... once.

There is no medical treatment for urethane paint fumes attacking the lungs except a lung transplant, and that can't be arranged quickly enough to save you. So once can definitely kill you.

 

This isn't like having one cigarette or cigar, where it isn't going to give you lung cancer if you only do it a little. This is like welding with only sunglasses. There are plenty of documented cases of a single paint job putting a guy in the hospital with irreversible damage, to the point of not being able to work again.

Maybe if you do it outdoors, with a breeze, and a good cartridge filter, you'll get away with it. There are plenty of pics on the internet of guys spraying urethanes in a garage stall that has nothing more than a box fan for ventilation. This is a death trap.

 

i know a guy that went blind from walking into a paint booth while they were painting. he had never been around auto type paint before. how's that for a first time exposure? as far as the waterborne crap, i just did my first complete with it. it was high end glasurit. gonna take some getting used to. and the only part that is waterborne is the basecoat. used the same clear that we have been spraying for years. judging by the smell, waterborne doesn't mean you can drink it. an i-car instructor from okc that i know got isocynate poisoning years ago and he tells me he til this day can't be around it or he starts having problems again. it stays with you. this stuff is nasty. my dad is one of 2 older painters i know. he is 66. been painting since the early 60's. he was painting before they had warning labels on paint cans. and yes he has his share of health problems from the paint. it definitely screws with the central nervous system. he can hardly write his name. his glands are swollen and hard as a rock. he is still the best painter i have ever seen........btw, lacquer has been mentioned in this thread. it isn't safe either. why do you think it is virtually non-existant? the v.o.c.'s from it even worse.

 

Watch the shows like Overhaulin. The guy(s) doing the painting are in full moonsuits with full supplied air face masks. Anyone watching does it from outside the booth thru the windows or is fully suited as well. It's still less expensive to buy a forced air face mask and hook it to a small blower (the inexpensive bathroom fan should work fine if it is placed to pick up fresh air far from any fumes) than to pay someone to shoot your project, plus you can do it at your pace and convenience. A squirrel cage fan and motor from an old forced air furnace (ask a friendly HVAC installer to save you one, they typically scrap them) Makes a far better and easier to install exhaust setup than a box fan since they usually have provisions for a filter and ducting (or easily mount in a simple metal or wood housing) and can move more air volume at a slower speed.