Notices
6.7L Power Stroke Diesel 2011-current Ford Powerstroke 6.7 L turbo diesel engine
Sponsored by:
Sponsored by:

DEF usage

 
  #31  
Old 07-06-2010, 03:19 PM
sdetweil's Avatar
sdetweil
sdetweil is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Pflugerville, tx
Posts: 11,595
sdetweil has a spectacular reputation.sdetweil has a spectacular reputation.sdetweil has a spectacular reputation.sdetweil has a spectacular reputation.sdetweil has a spectacular reputation.sdetweil has a spectacular reputation.sdetweil has a spectacular reputation.sdetweil has a spectacular reputation.sdetweil has a spectacular reputation.sdetweil has a spectacular reputation.sdetweil has a spectacular reputation.
Originally Posted by EpicCowlick View Post
Dudes... Let's take a closer look at the math. $1,500 worth of tires that go 50,000 miles = 3 cents per mile. DEF that costs $3/gallon and takes 5 gallons over 5000 miles = one third of a cent per mile. So... Tires = 3 center per mile and DEF = 3 miles per cent.
he had priced DEF at $10/gal

Sam
 
  #32  
Old 07-06-2010, 03:37 PM
kluger's Avatar
kluger
kluger is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 70
kluger is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
What the nay-sayers seem to miss is that whether the DEF is 3 cents a mile or 3 miles a cent, the lower EGR that it allows should contribute to better diesel fuel economy - which is one of the reasons why almost all diesel builders have chosen DEF. Diesel plus DEF should cost less per mile than diesel plus lots of EGR.
 
  #33  
Old 07-06-2010, 08:24 PM
EpicCowlick's Avatar
EpicCowlick
EpicCowlick is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North of Salt Lake City
Posts: 5,119
EpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant future
Originally Posted by kluger View Post
What the nay-sayers seem to miss is that whether the DEF is 3 cents a mile or 3 miles a cent, the lower EGR that it allows should contribute to better diesel fuel economy - which is one of the reasons why almost all diesel builders have chosen DEF. Diesel plus DEF should cost less per mile than diesel plus lots of EGR.
Another benefit of DEF is not having to repair plugged EGR's like many of the Dodges are dealing with.
 
  #34  
Old 07-07-2010, 08:05 AM
ruschejj's Avatar
ruschejj
ruschejj is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Greenwood, SC
Posts: 6,663
ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.ruschejj has a spectacular reputation.
Sorry about my math, I throw a dinger out there now and then.

At any rate, cost per mile is really low compared to tires and fuel.

And, MPG is supposed to be better (thanks kluger) so the cost should offset/cancel each other when compared to other modern diesels (don't argue the 7.3!)
 
  #35  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:55 AM
EpicCowlick's Avatar
EpicCowlick
EpicCowlick is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North of Salt Lake City
Posts: 5,119
EpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant future
Originally Posted by ruschejj View Post
And, MPG is supposed to be better (thanks kluger) so the cost should offset/cancel each other when compared to other modern diesels (don't argue the 7.3!)
And right there is the big unknown and the heart of the matter! Using DEF actually increases mileage and will clearly reduce maintenance costs due to less EGR usage. Whether DEF costs one-third of a cent or one cent, the savings in fuel and maintenance is greater. That would be some cool data to get a hold of.

Let me go out on a limb here and say that 5% of the total 18% improvement in mileage is due solely to DEF usage. Here's the math: a 5% improvement in mileage of a 2010 Super Duty that averaged say, 12 mpg means that the 2011 will now get 12.6 mpg. Over a 25,000 mile period assuming $3/gallon fuel the savings is 99 gallons or $297. Assuming DEF at $3/gallon you would spend $75. If those assumptions are correct, DEF saves $222/year. If DEF costs $10/gallon (which is crazy), you save $47 per year.

Regardless of the dollar cost/value of DEF, there are other benefits beyond the reduced EGR maintenance cost. Clearly there are environmental and health benefits as well. Bottom line, you're making money by using DEF (not much, but a little) and being a good citizen to others and mother earth as well.
 
  #36  
Old 07-07-2010, 10:09 AM
kluger's Avatar
kluger
kluger is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 70
kluger is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Epic - thanks for mentioning the environmental benefits. As much as I love the roar of a well-tuned engine & the smell of diesel in the morning the fact that we can have horsepower & torque aplenty while still leaving things a little cleaner for our kids appeals to me. Does that mean I'm getting old?
 
  #37  
Old 07-07-2010, 03:53 PM
origcharger
origcharger is offline
Posting Guru
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,096
origcharger has a good reputation on FTE.origcharger has a good reputation on FTE.
Isn't promoting the environmental benefits of DEF a bit like promoting plug in electric vehicles without considering how the electricity was generated?
Like electricity, DEF doesn't just happen, it has to be produced, packaged and distributed.
 
  #38  
Old 07-07-2010, 04:31 PM
EpicCowlick's Avatar
EpicCowlick
EpicCowlick is offline
Post Fiend
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: North of Salt Lake City
Posts: 5,119
EpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant futureEpicCowlick has a brilliant future
Originally Posted by origcharger View Post
Isn't promoting the environmental benefits of DEF a bit like promoting plug in electric vehicles without considering how the electricity was generated?
Like electricity, DEF doesn't just happen, it has to be produced, packaged and distributed.
Not to mention the energy and materials used to develop the DEF injection system installed on vehicles. DEF systems didn't just appear off the shelf. There was a cost to that when we bought the trucks. I'm sure Obama and the EPA thought all that through and decided it was worth it... (sarcasm) They know best you know... (double sarcasm)
 
  #39  
Old 07-07-2010, 07:29 PM
hsfbfan
hsfbfan is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 560
hsfbfan is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.hsfbfan is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
DEF systems aren't anything new. They have been used in Europe for quite a while.
 
  #40  
Old 07-07-2010, 09:04 PM
kluger's Avatar
kluger
kluger is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 70
kluger is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
Originally Posted by origcharger View Post
Isn't promoting the environmental benefits of DEF a bit like promoting plug in electric vehicles without considering how the electricity was generated?
Like electricity, DEF doesn't just happen, it has to be produced, packaged and distributed.
I don't think I was promoting DEF as much as resigning myself to its use as a fact of life now. That said, if I have to use it, its at least nice to know that it has some benefits and won't cost me much if anything. As for it's production, urea is produced in huge quantities for the ag market and for SCR in stationary power plants. The over-the-road SCR urea usage (higher purity to keep that injector & catalyst clean) is expected to eventually reach a whole 2% of annual production, they probably spill that much each year.
I think I'll go have a beer and make some of my own.
Cheers
 
  #41  
Old 07-08-2010, 04:49 AM
Rafiki2cu
Rafiki2cu is offline
Senior User
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 168
Rafiki2cu is starting off with a positive reputation.
I was wondering if the DEF we buy is all the same. I always try to buy the best oil and filters for my truck and if there was a high quality DEF available I would be using it.
 
  #42  
Old 07-08-2010, 07:23 AM
kluger's Avatar
kluger
kluger is offline
Junior User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: SE Wisconsin
Posts: 70
kluger is gaining momentum as a positive member of FTE.
There isn't much to DEF - urea & de-ionized water. There's no additive package like in lubricating or fuel oils. Anything that meets the SAE requirements (and thus carries the SAE logo) should be pretty much the same. Plus its not going to go through the engine, only the SCR catalyst and the DPF.

What we do need to watch out for are storage tempertures. Time spent above 85F begins to reduce its 18 month storage life. Below 11F and it will start to freeze - that's why the truck uses exhaust heat to warm it up if it's cold out before it will start injecting it. If the urea starts to crystalize (freeze) it will plug the injector.

As has been mentioned, its been in use in europe, they call it AdBlue, for a few years and I'm not aware of any major problems with it there. Stick with a name brand, buy from a place that turns their inventory and if you do want to keep a jug or two around home, don't leave it outside. Since the computer gives plenty of warning before you run out, ~800 miles I think, I'll probably just purchase it as needed. I don't expect it to be a big deal.
 
  #43  
Old 07-08-2010, 04:30 PM
rickatic
rickatic is offline
Postmaster
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 3,839
rickatic has a great reputation on FTE.rickatic has a great reputation on FTE.rickatic has a great reputation on FTE.rickatic has a great reputation on FTE.
Kluger

Well said, I am not stock piling DEF
 
  #44  
Old 07-08-2010, 05:09 PM
radzer0
radzer0 is offline
Elder User
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 664
radzer0 is starting off with a positive reputation.
3900 miles here. Still shows under half a tank but its not showing other warnings yet. Maybe ill get 5000-6000 miles on it.
 
 
Related Topics
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
hawkeyestoob
6.7L Power Stroke Diesel
10
05-02-2016 05:56 AM
93-331-29PSI
6.7L Power Stroke Diesel
3
01-08-2016 02:21 PM
Icthus in AK
6.7L Power Stroke Diesel
26
08-14-2015 10:41 AM
minus40
6.7L Power Stroke Diesel
16
12-09-2014 04:53 AM
davidmcintyre
6.7L Power Stroke Diesel
12
09-12-2010 12:44 PM


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Quick Reply: DEF usage


Contact Us - About Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

© 2019 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands

We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites.
 
  • Ask a Question
    Get answers from community experts
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: