Lincoln Mark VIII fan on the LEFT, Taurus fan on the RIGHT.

I'll take the Mark8 fan thanks. Currently installed on my turbo'd mustang, and it kept it plenty cool this past summer.

 

hey Mike,you just reminded me of the drawback to that one.by using the FK-50P dc controller,this would eliminate that massive startup draw the Lincoln fan is known for.


the dual Windstar set inside the stock 9th gen fan shroud:

(PSD from an OBN member.)


first.understanding the IDI's normal operating temperatures.the ideal temp for max performance and fuel economy is much higher than some people think.the diesel engine is not like a gas engine that prefers lower heat.
many people think,the cooler the better.this is not so,with any fluid in any component of your truck.every part of the drive train,yes including auto transmissions have a preferred operating temp (which is 150f minimum,and 175f ideally by the way measured in the base/pan of the trans.)



to the best of my knowledge through research:
Motorcraft E5TZ-8575-C = 192* fully open = 212* (best for fuel economy and performance.)
Navistar 1807974C94 = 180* fully open = 200* (best for running cooler should you find the need for your application.)

so if your stock motorcraft T-stat is just fully open at 212*,what's to be afraid of,of seeing a good 20-25 degree's above this while working the engine good?........nothing.

*
i had a section about adjusting coolant mixes.double checking the cavitation preventive article again,i see its stated that a 50/50 is required to protect the engine.
http://www.oilburners.net/articles/cavitationartic.html

as a rule,diesel's love heat to an extent.
don't be afraid to keep your temps up for optimal performance.if your scared,just read this:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ure-gauge.html
keeping in mind,Daves sending unit is placed in the stock idiot lite sending hole,so he'll read slightly higher than most will,with aftermarket sending units placed in the stock location where the idiot temp sending unit is.



more info:


with a truck engine speed of 1400 rpm, an average vehicle speed of 50 mph and yearly travel distance of 30,000 miles, a viscous drive consuming 0.5 hp (0.4 kW) in the off mode burns approximately 48 gal. of fuel per year.

read that again.did you see him say "in the OFF mode"

if you think a fan robbing about 30 hp at the rear wheels is a waste of time to try and combat.
i welcome you to a Hypermiling Tips forum where one owner did the swap due to think he only had a 0.11hp draw.
Electric vs. belt driven cooling fan - Fuel Economy, Hypermiling, EcoModding News and Forum - EcoModder.com

iv said it before,and i'l say it again.........every mod adds up.
this one just happens to be huge,because our stock fans are WAY outdated.not indented for fuel prices north of 3 bucks a gal.

next to adding a turbo,im going to go out on a limb,and say i think ditching the stock fan for electric is the largest economy and performance increase mod you can do to the idi.more important than intake and exhaust mods.
i never had a working fan clutch on this truck,if it wasn't for plowing,id likely never even need a locking fan.my temps where 225/230 until i did a flush,with new t-stat.215-220 degree temps now.
plow and no locking fan,sent me right up to 230-235 and gauge flashing,where i pre-set it to warn me.so that's no good.still fairly safe,but really starting to push it.240+ at least for any length of time is the serious danger zone iv come to read from most.


dc controller.

this controller is likely the best option for hypermilers.as its draws only what it needs,rather than just ON or OFF.
http://www.dccontrol.com/fancontrol.htm
as noted in other links here,you can also set the controllers to simply turn off totally while going down the road.
however,the temps will fall and turn off itself.this is just a hypermilers tweak for when using the A/C -i don't recommend frigging with it myself,however if you do,do yourself a favor and don't just use a switch.incorp it into the VSS or some other aftermarket speed sensor or something.make it foolproof!!

imho,there are two requirements before attempting this mod.
1.3g alternator.(all 1993+ come stock with a 130a 3g.) the mod is dirt cheap and easy as pie to do.search the forum.
2.a REAL temp gauge.
3.perhaps not required.but i really feel this controller is the only way to go.keeps it all auto/turn key and you cant mess stuff up.very efficient and foolproof.




OBN dyno runs again:

Editors note... These results are rear wheel SAE horsepower numbers achieved on a SuperFlow dynometer unit during the 2009 IDI Weekend in Bowling Green, Kentucky, and represent a large cross section of truck models and styles. Some Powerstroke engines are listed for comparison. Most were modified.

Name - Horsepower - Torque in ft/lbs

Non turbo results

John Herbert 143.9 261.3
Marnin Gehman 137.4 257.1
Heath Sutton 123.2 218.7
Matthias Agne 108.8 229.1

Average Horsepower of a normally aspirated stock IDI.... 128.3


this means,your under 100hp for hills if your stock engine fans locks up while towing.thats 24.94% of your pulling power used to cool your engine rather than pull the load up the hill.
the avg n/a idi @ 128.3 rear wheel hp - Daves estimate of 32 rear wheel hp leaves you @ just 96.3 ponies at the rear wheels with a locked up engine fan.ouch!


those who have locked the fan solid full time.......better start thinking about what you did lol.
no wounder why many are not happy with their performance out of the idi.
with never having a working fan clutch,iv been lucky not to have this drastic fuel economy hit,or power loss while working my engine for its first year of ownership (with no overheating issues until now with the plow blocking my grill/radiator.)

Dave did have success at keeping his engine cool via e-fans.so we know they work.if he could keep his engine cool hauling around his large equipment and heavy loads,you and i won't be having any issues.

now read here:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/4...or-warmer.html

what went wrong then?
we can move forward from where Dave left off rather than just throw in the towel.use fans we know that hold up over time,and study correct fan controllers.

just the wrong fans and controller.actually i think he may have had them manually controlled.can't remember where that thread went.
* here it is:
what if you have a high demand on your electrical system already.such as plowing for long periods of time:

there is also an upgrade kit that changes the stock 130a 3g into a 200a alt sold on ebay should one experience problems while plowing and using the e-fans.
High Output Alternator Kit Ford 200 Amp F-Series Pickup - eBay (item 330510442074 end time Dec-27-10 08:26:42 PST)

you can also search for 200 amp alts on ebay,and see all the fords than came stock with them,may find 'em cheap at salvage yards,and may bolt right up,or a little modifying as well,saving even more.



it may seem like a lot,but even the used oem windstar dual e-fan,the dc controller,and the 200a alt kit would still be around the price,or lower than a stock high grade locking fan clutch.with fuel prices now,and #1 diesel bringing down the mileage,it's a very cost effective mod,no matter how much upgrading is required for the use.
and don't forget to research just how failure prone those stock clutches are!! if you think you can just buy one,and run the idi forever,better do some more research.

so this throws the statement some make "i trust the stock mechanical for reliability" vs e-fans out the window too imho.you don't have a good track record with them things.sorry fellers.



many people seem to think there's a direct 1:1 transfer between mechanical and electric.
this isn't true.if the alternator took the same hit,then the auto industry wouldn't have swapped to e-fans in the mass productions of vehicles years ago.

"An electric motor generates its own voltage when rotating under load that is typically about two thirds the input voltage, this generated voltage reduces the effective voltage applied to the motor windings by a factor of three and the reduction in voltage lowers the running current by the same amount. "

so if you still thought the alt would simply trade off and take the hit..........well there you go.
this also provides proof of that misunderstanding.we need to move forward from this misconception as well.

visit any hypermiler forum,and you'll see people struggling and paying much more,for much less boost in economy.they're tell you,that is a drastic boost when talking about big trucks.

how does that look % wise for your truck?
if you getting 14 MPG.that would equal a 10.7% boost in fuel economy with one single mod! that's over 1/10th!! if your getting less MPG's it's even higher!
keep in mind Daves engine likely saw the stock fan locked up more than some,so don't expect exactly what Dave did as far as economy.

so there.figured id edit this thread with my researching done before deciding on the e-fan w/dc controller setup vs just another high failure prone, stock power robbing,fuel economy killing fan clutch.
if your still not convinced,i can't help ya.
good luck everyone who tries it.

huge thanks to Dave for all his trial and error posting/reports/results.
if it wasn't for your efforts,we wouldn't know where to start today.nor know just how worthy the effort to switching to electric engine fan(s) would be.

it will be a couple weeks until i receive the controller.the fan should be here this week.
when everything is here,i'll show pics of installation and post results.

 

bump.
added an overload of my research above.
Merry Christmas.

Reduce Oil Dependence Costs
U.S. Petroleum Use, 1970-2007

Today, over half of the oil we use is imported (57%), and our dependence will increase as we use up domestic resources.

Most of the world's oil reserves are concentrated in the Middle East, and about two-thirds are controlled by OPEC members.

Oil price shocks and price manipulation by OPEC have cost our economy dearly—about $1.9 trillion from 2004 to 2008—and each major shock was followed by a recession.


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Mel (known for the famus "moose injection pumps") :

 

im going to play along here and be devils advocate for the mechanical side, i am going with the 19.5 inch flexalite bolt on fan. I know it doesnt push quite as much air but while going at slow speeds it is just as effective. At higher speeds, my grill and bumper modifications will more than allow free airflow all over the rad. I havent hit 200 in nearly five months, that is when i did all the mods. With the straight intake from cold airflow and the rad bracket cut to aid that i can not hit 200 even when gunning up a steep incline called the malahat. It is not a scary incline but it is steep and it stops the logger trucks down to 20mph usually. so this week the fan comes off and i will leave it off till i see it warming up in the higher areas like 220. Till then, she stays off but if it warms up easier i will throw on the flexalite fan to see what happens. It wouldnt work in hotter climates but up here, we are lucky to see 80 or 85 in the middle of summer.

 

what do you have for a T-stat and coolant mixture?
your below the IDI's normal operating temperature.
your missing out on a nice toasty cab in the winter too.
i wounder if your fan clutch is bad,in that it's not releasing.according to this test;if your operating temps are to low,the fan should be replaced.i wounder how common this is?
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ml#post7461511
Motorcraft E5TZ-8575-C = 192* fully open = 212*
that's bad having them fail that way as well,as they're robbing power and economy if this happens.hmmm.

 

in ten minutes my cab will sweat you out. guaranteed. The temp gauge is solid and a ford factory installed t stat which i can see open and close when running hills but it seems to never get above the 195ish range. But then again i also dont act like a banshee running up the hills very often. Maybe its a combo of having the heater on while driving and not going too crazy or with the exhaust and intake mods it works too well? Could be that i need the covers for the grill?

 

https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...ml#post7461511


The link above states the point about grill aerodynamics and how the air runs over the rad. With the grill cutout like i did and the bumper cutout, it is no wonder i cant get er up to temp. How much mpg loss am i seeing from operating at 185-190? Any at all?

 

i'll be darned.do you think your fan is engaging too early? do you hear it lock up or anything? what's the coolant mixture,50/50?
where is your sending unit for the aftermarket gauge?
it would seem as is your t-stat would always be in motion.

180-190?
did you use the international t-stat?
you didn't use a auto parts store t-stat did you?

as for fuel economy,your likely missing out.
check out what the powerstroke guys have discovered:
https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/8...-or-not-2.html
http://www.dieselsite.com/index.asp?...ROD&ProdID=186

a diesel engine operating at it's ideal operating temp will be more efficient.
i'v also been checking into auto trans temp efficiency lately as well.this also appears to be just as important.
over cooling the auto in winter (well, any season.it's just that its much easier to do with external trans coolers when the temps drop of course) can hurt fuel economy.
there's quite a bit that can hurt economy in cooler climates besides just the cut fuel.

non of this seems to be much of a concern when plowing though,let me tell ya lol.
we just had a major blizzard here (finally starting to calm down) and i tell ya,iv never had my gauges flash at me so much to keep an eye on things lol.
my sleep cycle is shot now haha.now i know how the other guys here plowing feel.it's kinda stressful out there.

 

coolant is 50/50 mix, nothing crazy or expensive. SCA's at normal, and like i said it is a ford dealer installed thermostat. I have never heard this roar or it could be that it is all i know. Hence the reason for me changing to a non clutch bolt on flexalite fan. 55 bucks for a test and it would be just my luck the new clutches around here are friggin insane price wise. i just need something that i can deal with on my own. The kit for the ford clutch removal that they sell at the auto parts store here is about 32 bucks but the wrong size. They seem artarded when i say 89 7.3l fan clutch removal wrench or kit. They just dont get it. Ah well, i may just have ford remove it for 20 bones haha. Worth the hassle.

 

it has begun.
i drained some coolant and removed the top hose,followed by removing the stock fan and shroud.
i set the e-fan in (well tried) and noticed the larger fan motor was too close.
i took the assembly to the grinder,and ground some material from top and bottom,to basically make it slimmer.just 1/4 inch worth or so.this was just enough to use both stock fan motors without the need to buy and retrofit in another low profile motor to the other side.this puts the same amount of distance by the way,as if it was sitting directly up to the rad in the van,because of the 1/4 or so gap already present on my rad flange.so cfm/flow design should not be effected.
i then simply began to drill new mounting holes on both sides to secure it.the right upper was easy,simply drill a hole into the flange of the assembly and new hole in the stock fan flange.even used the same clip and bolt.the lower pass side was easy as well,however like a dummy i overtightened it and broke it! ahh,i'll have to rig up a little bracket for it now.when it's cold plastic is brittle.warning.
the lower drivers side needs a bracket made too,simply because there is no flange on this side.so i need to rig up both sides to the bottom now.
the pass upper will be pretty simple.i'll just need a long bolt,i drilled the new hole already,i can use the stock clip,then i'll use a double nut on the bolt to hold the assembly just where i want it.alternatively,you could build a little spacer or stack a billion washers to fill it in.
besides the very cold weather,it's a fun and pretty easy mod to retrofit in this fan assembly.
i plan on using one fan as the low speed fan (which kicks on with the a/c also) and the other as my high speed fan with my fan controller.more snow coming,and im sick of driving 20 mph to keep my engine cool with the plow on lol.so this is gunna be nice to just be able to drive and hopefully not worry.
one things for sure,i NEVER see the kind of temps i can (if im not careful) when the plow is on and going down the road,vs when im loaded up with wood or chips and towing the chipper around in 100 degree weather with inop fan clutch both cases (here in Maine we tend to peak 100 degrees from time to time,and very humid.however we usually only have a few days of those in the middle of August.still,90+ and high humidity in the summer is common.)
so if these e-fans pass the test now,i will know it will be smooth sailing next spring/summer and fall,as i know,they will hardly ever need to run,to keep me safely under 230-235 degree's.

while im pushing snow,i run quite cool as well.pretty much normal open T-stat temp around 210-215.
it's really only when the plow is on,and driving down the road have i seen 240 plus! and learned real fast 20mph keeps me normal 215-220.lucky i don't go too far to plow,and lately it seems with the road conditions i wouldn't want to go much faster anyway lol.but there are times when the roads are good,that 35-45 has been safe,just not possible without risking a head gasket.so iv just been driving safe like granny sipping my coffee and staying warm,and keeping my engine cool.
i got the digital gauge set to flash @ 235 so i know to back off when needed,without having to panic and watch my gauges all the time.

 

Sounds like it fit good, so I have 2 questions. Which fan setup did you end up using? Which radiator do you have, the wide short 1 or the almost square unit?

 

the rad looks fairly square.
whatever is used in the 92-94.5 idi stock?
there is a couple inches down below that fans don't cover,but i don't see that being an issue.
i used the 95-98 dual ford windstar assembly.

yes fits very very good with just a little grinding to make it slimmer.if a guy wanted too,he could modify to fit dual short motors,but i found the grinder making the shroud slimmer was much easier and it fit right in behind the belts and adjuster just right.it's close that's for sure,but clears.engine can rock side to side all it wants without hitting or anything.
i'll have pics up when complete.almost looks like it was made to fit by just looking at it.
you'll think my idi came stock with the dual e-fans once i post pics.it's thats good of a fit.

 

Probably work for mine also. My radiator is close to square also. They did use a radiator during 89 that was really wide but only 15" tall between tanks, would be a totally differnet fit.

 

ahh.yeah i think the 7th gen trucks (80-86) used the wide radiator as well.they say two ford taurus (or like t-birds etc.) with the 3.8l fans fit those nicely.
that would be a little more involved,as you would need to connect 'em and or make a shroud around 'em or something.but its all worth it.
the controller i got was really more made for those fans,but im kinda testing things lol.
i may need to just combine them and run 'em both on high for winter,then go back to a independent low/high like planned for summer.sounds backwards lol,but it's all about my plow blocking the grill giving any cooling issues.who knows perhaps only the one low fan will ever kick on even with the plow on.id really laugh at all the e-fan naysayers then.

 

I did a electric fan conversion around 1990 on an old 77 cherokee that had a built 360 in it. used a fan from an old GM front driver with V6. Installed a thermal switch in water jacket for temp control and had a toogle switch in cab to shut it off for deep water. Worked really well while I had it installed. Pulled it out when I had to go down to tennesee to tow a car back. Did not want to risk it not being enough cooling towing that kind of weight through the passes.