Just checked your website, and I must say you have some good stuff. My only concern with the DPF-R code free programmer, is that it requires the EGR block plates. Is this correct? I looked at my EGR and the top one looks easy to put on, but the bottom one looks like a pain. I was also just going to go with the DPF delete pipe and leave the CAT, but everyone here says take the CAT off too.

Oh yeah, what the hell are bungs? The Delete pipes come with or without them. This is the website I was looking at buying from:

https://www.dieselpowerproducts.com/...08-10-64l.aspx

If you can make me a deal, I am in...

Carlos J
losky24@yahoo.com

 

no you do not need to get ride of egr and you can keep kitty the pipe is designed to bolt on to your cat. bung holio yeah they are threaded holes for your sencers to screw in just got my pipe yesterday and my truck is same keepn cat egr and stock exaust easier to swap 1 pipe and couple wires if needs to go into ford for service its my family hauln furniture moving snow plowing truck you know multi task truck Ive done soooooo much reserch on this re gen issue and big truckers are greiving to their exuast for a older mack 1 dollar new mack 3000.00 getting rid of it not priceless.

 

OK, I don't want to start an argument but here's my input. I don't drive my truck much except on RV trips and it has been sitting in my shop since March 1. Today I had a 150 mile errand to run so I took the truck. I reset the lie o meter (LOM) getting on the interstate. LOM showed around 18MPG +/- for the first 40 or so miles. At that point I went into regen which lasted 5-10 minutes. During regen the LOM went from 18 or so down to the low 14s. After regen the LOM started climbing back up. By the time I left the interstate it was back around 16 or so. Now my LOM is not accurate but it is consistant. It is consistantly 2 MPG above carefully hand calculated mileage. That's about the third time I have run that test and gotten the same results. Based on that, (and giving all due respect to the results you guys with DPF Delete and Tuners get) I just can't believe that if everything else remained stock and the truck never did a regen the MPG wouldn't increase by the 3 to 4 MPG I lose during regen. Perhaps the use of the tuner even with a "stock" setting changes the dynamics enough to impact your results. If so that would explain why you have no MPG gain with the "stock" tune. For a brief while there was a DPF delete pipe on ebay with a plug in device that told the truck that no regen was needed. It wasn't there long and was not expensive. I don't remember the price but I remnember it being way less than half of the cost of a front line tuner. Don't know what happened but sure would like to have tried it. Anyway, that's just my two cents worth in support of the OPs thoughts on this subject.

 

So you are saying you don't believe that with just turning off the Regen on a stock truck that you will save 3-4mpg? I don't have any experience with that so I would probably not believe that either.

However, once you replace the restrictive cat and dpf with a straight pipe, and then tune it... you do get the nice increase in mileage. Do you question that at all?

 

No sir, that's exactly my point, if the DPF were removed with no other changes except to get the computer to not regen, there should be an improvement of the 3 to 4 MPG that we use in regen. I'm wondering what kind of economy these trucks have when they are sold overseas in places where there are no EPA requirments.

As to what you get with the tuners, of course I believe that. I just wanted to support the OP, Thought you Spartan guys were a little quick to dismiss his point which to me seems on target.

 

Ya sometimes I get so lost in these threads hahah.
So would you say it was really 4 mpg you lost from the regen? You said it dropped from 18 to 14, then crept back up to 16. Since you were only on 40 miles when you hit the regen you really didn't have a good baseline for average... at least not in my opinion. I would think if you hit that same regen, but you were 200 miles in on a trip, it clearly wouldn't have affected you average MPG the same as it did at 40 miles. So I think a 4mpg regen penalty seems a little high, and 2mpg sounds better. However, you said you did this multiple times and each time you ended up with the same results. On the other two trips you did, did you have more mileage before you hit that regen?

 

I didn't track it that close, what I mean by the same results is the drop of 3 to 4 mpg, then a climb back up but not all the way because I would say on a 200 mile trip I would have more than 1 regen. At any rate, even if it was 2 MPG given the weight of my truck and the 4.30 differential 15 to 16 MPG would be acceptable to me. And, if I could get 1 to 1.5 towing my 5er that would get me to 10 or so which would also be acceptable. I haven't set the bar too high, just trying to figure out how to get a little help without harming the truck or voiding the warranty.

 

The Spartan guys have tried it, the Spartan tuner comes with a DPF delete only tune (no HP added). I don't have enough miles on mine to say for sure, but I know I am doing better at the 275HP tune. Everyone that has the Spartan seems to say the same thing (look at the Spartan forum, powerstroke.org etc.). The higher HP tunes are where the MPG really improves, the lower ones not so much.

You are arguing with theory against people that are using experience. At least that is what it sounds like. These are not old carburetor gas engines where air flow and exhaust flow is where all the gains are....there are many more variables that effect efficiency in these engines. For example, injector timing. The stock injector timing is retarded for emissions. A DPF delete only tune won't fix this, but the higher HP tunes do and it makes a big difference. Also, the higher HP tunes lock up the transmission sooner which helps, remove the environmental lag when hitting the throttle, Etc. etc.

The DPF alone simply isn't the only problem and removal alone won't make a huge difference. You have to look at the whole system and adjust it all to work better. The factory design is all for emissions, not efficiency.

 

You are arguing with theory against people that are using experience. At least that is what it sounds like. These are not old carburetor gas engines where air flow and exhaust flow is where all the gains are....

No doubt I am stating theory, and I can't prove it. But you are doing the same thing, so why is mine wrong and yours right? A "tuner stock" is an oxymoron, once the tuner is attached the truck is not stock. True, you have a setting that says "stock", which is the result of a programmer trying his best to duplicate the stock truck, maybe. Maybe the stock setting is programmed to detune so that the high HP settings feel even more robust. I'm just saying.....it's possible. But it is not stock. I got the little jab in the eye about the carbs, and I'm dialing the elder abuse hotline right now. So be alert for a knock on your door.

 

I was also skeptical about deleting the DPF/CAT. I am going with just the electronics to stop the regen process. I am really not worried about MPG gain, because it has already been stated that you will not see any improvement unless you buy a tuner. What I am most concerned about, is the long term affects of the regen process.

Watch/read this, it is really interesting...

GEAR BOX Z

 

I most definitely did not mean that to be a jab, I just meant that many people (myself included) are used to hot-rods with carburetors and the idea that air flow is king. So when they look at the 6.4 with it's very restrictive DPF, it seems logical that that is the main cause of the low MPG. My point is only that there are many other causes that need to be addressed before major gains are to be had.

The DPF delete tune on the Spartan, to my knowledge, only disables the regen and adjusts how the feedback from the exhaust sensors is used. It leaves the rest of the tuning in the computer "stock". So yes, the truck isn't technically "stock" with that setup, but the engine tuning basically is.

 

Do I understand this correctly that you just want to turn the regen off but not take the DPF off? If so, that won't work I don't think. The DPF will simply plug up and the truck will quit running.

 

If you stop the regen process with the DPF left on the truck you will clog your DPF. It's not a matter of if it will happen, it will happen!! The whole purpose of regen is to clean the dpf of everything it captures and of course everyone knows it part of the emissions requirements. It is able to clean the DPF by burning the soot from the DPF using fuel and high temperatures. If the regen process is turned off with the DPF on the truck you are going to experience a loss of power as the DPF starts to get clogged, and more than likely sooner or later the truck will shut down. They are not cheap when you have to replace them and with regen being turned off get ready to shell out some cash...

 

No, I don't want to do anything, I was just having a discussion about the idea. I've pretty well made up my mind that this fall I'm either gonna buy a 2011 with the 6.7 or I'm gonna buy an extended warranty for the 08. I do find the little film from nomorecummins interesting. I have been thinking that changing the oil each 2500 miles might be whats needed to correct for the dilution of the oil from the regens. On the film they are talking about every 1000 miles. Now astamp I do feel like I'm back in the 50s. Except oil was about 20 cents a quart then.

 

I like the Gear box z idea. But I don't understand about the exhust options it has. It says "full exhust" but doesn't mention a muffler. Also a 2 piece exhust for Cat/DPF delete.
I should email them or call them.