Defective Complaints
Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,460
Likes: 14
From: The Land Of Time
Which goes back to my original statement of the incompitence at the dealership.
As far as a scan tool that will work well and in the future, I guess I would buy a AutoEnginuity with the Ford bundle. I have never used one, but as soon as I replace my alt. and batteries, that will be my next purchase for sure.
My OTC Genesyis is good but its alot more than the AE software, and doesnt do near as much with the diesels as the AE will do.
I hope that the dealer you brought it to is a different dealer or atleast gets it right by you this time.
If the oil cooler was not rebuilt the last time, I would ask why, that is what causes the EGR coolers to go bad.
Good Luck and Keep Us Posted,
Sarge
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
Likes: 7
From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
I went back through and re read this too, and I didnt see mention of oil cooler replacement either. No wonder why it needed 2 EGR coolers, and probably another one til someone fixes it right.
Which goes back to my original statement of the incompitence at the dealership.
Which goes back to my original statement of the incompitence at the dealership.
Probably one of the biggest contributing factor to the downfall of the 6.0 in the public viewpoint right there.
I have heard of some negative feedback on AE's Proline software. So I don't know if you want to go that route or not, but I haven't had any issues with their basic software plus license(s) and it's worth the money for it. In my opinion. Even if you can't fix it yourself, it will help you be better informed to tell someone what's going on and get them to fix it in a more efficient manner.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,460
Likes: 14
From: The Land Of Time
For sure Tex, even on the "older" trucks now the generic scan tools dont show much for Fords. I say genaric but I have over 3 grand wraped up into mine, I was looking for the AE with ford bundle, and I think its less than 500 bucks. I just dont remeber where to buy it...maybe you could remind me.
Sarge
Sarge
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
Likes: 7
From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
Riff Raff seems to be the one that usually has good deals on it(ie free shipping etc). Prices are pretty well fixed, but Riff Raff seems to be the way to go. I actually got mine through AE, but that was before it got to be a hot item too, so I didn't have other outlet to get it at the time. Even paying their full price plus the other licenses I'm still way a head of the game.
Thread Starter
|
Junior User
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
First, if this conversation is after advice to go after Ford, I am going to say I am out of it.
Ford made good on their warranty to the tune of close to $1 billion (shared with Navistar) and lost their shirt.
I have yet to see a case where Ford (corporate) really didn't act honorably.
Insofar as the 1998 compare. That is just flatly not applicable.
You are comparing an engine that is pre-EPA, without any of the smog component issues that is the No. 1 source of reliability problems.
Nor does it have much in the way of serious electronics controls (for smog etc.) that creates another reliability nightmare.
Then there is the whole set of issues introduced with ultra low sulfur diesel.
If you were to strip the 6.0 down to its elemental (pre-smog state), the bottom end, etc. are exceptionally well built, and certainly 250,000 miles is not an issue.
I have one of the highest mileage engines here - I can tell you my motor's core components are as strong as I can expect.
What is breaking is all the stuff they hang on - oil cooler, EGR cooler / valve, sensors, wiring, electronics, etc..
I hate to put it this way, but it is EPA / Clean air act.
It was only after the fact that all the manufacturers figured out what broke and why with EPA regs and what had to be done to fix it.
The Cummins are no better on a direct - year to year - compare with the Navistar.
Go to the Cummins forum and see for yourself.
So quite frankly, here is how I see your choices:
A) Sell it.
B) Don't bother buying another new one - EPA 2010 from what I heard is going to be no better, with lots of reliability issues from brand new, untested systems like the Diesel fluid injection system and the DPF.
That is true for Ford, GM, and Dodge.
C) If you are really into medium duty needs (full power output for towing, etc.), the answer will be a bona fide medium duty truck, with the medium duty costs and bills.
The day when you can tweak a factory diesel to produce a lot more power than stock and not pay the reliability / failure bill is over.
D) The days when diesels are tolerant of sloppy fuel, incorrect lubricants, filters, etc. is also over.
Tolerances are just far too tight, and things like EGR is messing up oil far sooner than expected.
If you listen to the gossip, the improvements in CK-4 (PC-11 ASTM) are pushing the oil business harder than they dare to admit, with further reduced limits on a lot of commonly used additives.
It is tougher and tougher out there...
Ford made good on their warranty to the tune of close to $1 billion (shared with Navistar) and lost their shirt.
I have yet to see a case where Ford (corporate) really didn't act honorably.
Insofar as the 1998 compare. That is just flatly not applicable.
You are comparing an engine that is pre-EPA, without any of the smog component issues that is the No. 1 source of reliability problems.
Nor does it have much in the way of serious electronics controls (for smog etc.) that creates another reliability nightmare.
Then there is the whole set of issues introduced with ultra low sulfur diesel.
If you were to strip the 6.0 down to its elemental (pre-smog state), the bottom end, etc. are exceptionally well built, and certainly 250,000 miles is not an issue.
I have one of the highest mileage engines here - I can tell you my motor's core components are as strong as I can expect.
What is breaking is all the stuff they hang on - oil cooler, EGR cooler / valve, sensors, wiring, electronics, etc..
I hate to put it this way, but it is EPA / Clean air act.
It was only after the fact that all the manufacturers figured out what broke and why with EPA regs and what had to be done to fix it.
The Cummins are no better on a direct - year to year - compare with the Navistar.
Go to the Cummins forum and see for yourself.
So quite frankly, here is how I see your choices:
A) Sell it.
B) Don't bother buying another new one - EPA 2010 from what I heard is going to be no better, with lots of reliability issues from brand new, untested systems like the Diesel fluid injection system and the DPF.
That is true for Ford, GM, and Dodge.
C) If you are really into medium duty needs (full power output for towing, etc.), the answer will be a bona fide medium duty truck, with the medium duty costs and bills.
The day when you can tweak a factory diesel to produce a lot more power than stock and not pay the reliability / failure bill is over.
D) The days when diesels are tolerant of sloppy fuel, incorrect lubricants, filters, etc. is also over.
Tolerances are just far too tight, and things like EGR is messing up oil far sooner than expected.
If you listen to the gossip, the improvements in CK-4 (PC-11 ASTM) are pushing the oil business harder than they dare to admit, with further reduced limits on a lot of commonly used additives.
It is tougher and tougher out there...
How do you get them to check the Oil Cooler??? They keep telling me that they can't do anything that the tech line doesnt tell them to do. How do I get it fixed???? I would say in the last 3 years, i have had EGR Coolers put on it. You can always tell when it's gone bad... the fan will kick on and start loosing antifreeze. one time it was the heads. the other times it was the EGR Cooler.. or was told that it was the EGR Cooler... you guys have me convinced that now It may not be all it's been all the time.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
Likes: 7
From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
It's quite a known fact of the relationship between oil cooler/EGR cooler. That's why monitoring ECT/EOT temps is a crucial thing to do and to not let the spread of those temps to be greater then 15*s.
I'm actually starting to think something else about the dealership that you have been going to, but I'm going to refrain from mentioning it.
I'm actually starting to think something else about the dealership that you have been going to, but I'm going to refrain from mentioning it.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
Get a scan tool, and monitor the spread of Engine Oil Temperature / Engine Coolant Temperature as Tex (one of the resident experts) says.
If the spread is over 15degrees, you need a new one.
If the spread is over 15degrees, you need a new one.
FTE Stories
Ford Trucks for Ford Truck Enthusiasts
2027 Ford Super Duty Buyer's Guide (Every Model, Engine, & Package)
Brett Foote
Top 10 Ford Truck Tragedies
Joe Kucinski
AEV FXL Super Duty - the Super Duty Raptor Ford Doesn't Make
Brett Foote
Lobo Vs Lobo: Proof the F-150 Lobo Should Be Even Lower!
Michael S. Palmer
Ford's 2001 Explorer Sportsman Concept Looks For a New Home
Verdad Gallardo
10 Best Ford Truck Engines We Miss the Most!
Joe Kucinski
2026 Shelby F-150 Off-Road: Better Than a Raptor R?
Brett Foote
2027 Super Duty Carhartt Package First Look: 12 Things You NEED to Know!
Michael S. Palmer
10 Most Surprising 2026 Ford Truck Features!
Joe Kucinski
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 12,123
Likes: 35
From: N. Fort Worth, tx
complain all you want. go to a different place that will fix it.
Postmaster
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 4
From: waynesville, mo.
These are the readings they got on the turbo trip to the dealer that initially started with the replacement of the computer that has now lead to them stating that the injectors are bad. See whatcha think.
9438a 2.0
MT6682 1.5
6005F .4
6005F1 .1
6005F2 .1
6005F6 .1
6005F19 .3
6005F38 .6
6005f45 .3
6089A .4
They stated that they found to be weak with no power performed fuel pres test ok, performed ecc test got codes koed, called hotline was told to check ust selinoid, replaced ust selinoid. had 10 psi boost, contacted hotline was told to perform 09-16-s(?) tsb performed restested PO 046 p2262 KOEO okay. Retest BUT road test found turbo still not boosting normally. remove/replace turbo w/new. retest 24-28 lb
went to pickup would not go over 35 mpg out of the parking lot. returned to dealership, stayed another 2 days found intake gasket blown, replaced changed egr cooler, antifreeze, oil filter, oil AARM Modul Engine Control and ran ok. left dealership. ran good for 2 months. back in shop after cold morning starts of sputtering and running only 35 mph until it warmed up. 3-5 miles) once it warmed up.. then it would run like nothing was wrong.
Engine started surging then hesitated diagnosted cleaned tube and replaced rpl sensor and ebp sensor. Started loosing anti freeze again.. took back to another dealership .. another egr cooler. still didn't fix the miss at cold start. stated though it was anti freeze from egr cooler in intake. Still not fixed. Took back again.. stated no 2 and 5 injector bad.
Thoughts???
9438a 2.0
MT6682 1.5
6005F .4
6005F1 .1
6005F2 .1
6005F6 .1
6005F19 .3
6005F38 .6
6005f45 .3
6089A .4
They stated that they found to be weak with no power performed fuel pres test ok, performed ecc test got codes koed, called hotline was told to check ust selinoid, replaced ust selinoid. had 10 psi boost, contacted hotline was told to perform 09-16-s(?) tsb performed restested PO 046 p2262 KOEO okay. Retest BUT road test found turbo still not boosting normally. remove/replace turbo w/new. retest 24-28 lb
went to pickup would not go over 35 mpg out of the parking lot. returned to dealership, stayed another 2 days found intake gasket blown, replaced changed egr cooler, antifreeze, oil filter, oil AARM Modul Engine Control and ran ok. left dealership. ran good for 2 months. back in shop after cold morning starts of sputtering and running only 35 mph until it warmed up. 3-5 miles) once it warmed up.. then it would run like nothing was wrong.
Engine started surging then hesitated diagnosted cleaned tube and replaced rpl sensor and ebp sensor. Started loosing anti freeze again.. took back to another dealership .. another egr cooler. still didn't fix the miss at cold start. stated though it was anti freeze from egr cooler in intake. Still not fixed. Took back again.. stated no 2 and 5 injector bad.
Thoughts???
How do you get them to check the Oil Cooler??? They keep telling me that they can't do anything that the tech line doesnt tell them to do. How do I get it fixed???? I would say in the last 3 years, i have had EGR Coolers put on it. You can always tell when it's gone bad... the fan will kick on and start loosing antifreeze. one time it was the heads. the other times it was the EGR Cooler.. or was told that it was the EGR Cooler... you guys have me convinced that now It may not be all it's been all the time.
Thread Starter
|
Junior User
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
I went back through and re read this too, and I didnt see mention of oil cooler replacement either. No wonder why it needed 2 EGR coolers, and probably another one til someone fixes it right.
Which goes back to my original statement of the incompitence at the dealership.
As far as a scan tool that will work well and in the future, I guess I would buy a AutoEnginuity with the Ford bundle. I have never used one, but as soon as I replace my alt. and batteries, that will be my next purchase for sure.
My OTC Genesyis is good but its alot more than the AE software, and doesnt do near as much with the diesels as the AE will do.
I hope that the dealer you brought it to is a different dealer or atleast gets it right by you this time.
If the oil cooler was not rebuilt the last time, I would ask why, that is what causes the EGR coolers to go bad.
Good Luck and Keep Us Posted,
Sarge
Which goes back to my original statement of the incompitence at the dealership.
As far as a scan tool that will work well and in the future, I guess I would buy a AutoEnginuity with the Ford bundle. I have never used one, but as soon as I replace my alt. and batteries, that will be my next purchase for sure.
My OTC Genesyis is good but its alot more than the AE software, and doesnt do near as much with the diesels as the AE will do.
I hope that the dealer you brought it to is a different dealer or atleast gets it right by you this time.
If the oil cooler was not rebuilt the last time, I would ask why, that is what causes the EGR coolers to go bad.
Good Luck and Keep Us Posted,
Sarge
Update on the diagnostics this morning... They said this morning that the number 2 injector is bad... that the number 5 is not bad after the first dealership told me that the number 5 was bad along with the number 2 injector. Hummm... Seems... like I went from good to worse? How do you find out about a technition whether or not they are good or not? How long they have been in service or not? Can you or is it worth you time?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
Before you conclude that an injector is bad.. always slap on a brand new FICM and see if the problem goes away.
It is technically for FICM voltage test to be good, and yet, for an issue to arise.
Also, try brand new cables from the FICM to the injectors and see if that fixes the issue.
It is technically for FICM voltage test to be good, and yet, for an issue to arise.
Also, try brand new cables from the FICM to the injectors and see if that fixes the issue.
Thread Starter
|
Junior User
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 77
Likes: 0
Before you conclude that an injector is bad.. always slap on a brand new FICM and see if the problem goes away.
It is technically for FICM voltage test to be good, and yet, for an issue to arise.
Also, try brand new cables from the FICM to the injectors and see if that fixes the issue.
It is technically for FICM voltage test to be good, and yet, for an issue to arise.
Also, try brand new cables from the FICM to the injectors and see if that fixes the issue.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
Looking at this thread, here is the best thing you can do:
A) use the network of people here to help you track down one of the best dealers in your area (say 500mile circle), and the best tech.
B) go to that dealer and get a top to bottom assessment.
C) get the work done.
A) use the network of people here to help you track down one of the best dealers in your area (say 500mile circle), and the best tech.
B) go to that dealer and get a top to bottom assessment.
C) get the work done.