PHP tuned FICM
Hotshot
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 15,368
Likes: 121
From: Stuttgart, Ar
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 225
Likes: 4
From: ILL relocated to Ozarks
The message below is from Rob (CEO of DC Power Engineering):
Hi Mark, and thank you for your interest in our products. The pulley we run on the 6.0L diesel is 2.15” diameter which is smaller than the OEM pulley, however the centerline of our alternator is offset about 3/8” higher than the OEM Ford alternator so the effective belt tension with the smaller pulley is almost identical. On the 6.0’s that we have tested on, their idle speed has been closer to 650 RPM’s and idle output is between 140-150 amps at operating temp, so it will be slightly higher with your higher idle speed. If you are looking purely for idle output, we have our new 270XP alternators available now (they are not currently up on the website yet). These alternators will do about 180 amps at idle no problem on your 6.0. I’ll give you a link to one we did an install on last week on a 7.3L, but because the 6.0’s have higher idle speeds and better pulley ratios the idle output of that alternator will be higher on a 6.0L PSD. I have these alternator's on special this month for $529 as well.
If you really don’t need something bigger than the 190, it’s hands down the best 200 amp class alternator money can buy and will easily out perform any other 200 amp 6G based alternator out there. If you do need something bigger, then the XP alternator is hands down the best alternator as it has no compromises and is the best alternator money can buy.
If you have any other questions about the alternator or need additional information, please don't hesitate to ask.
Here is a link to the video for your reference. [color=#0000ff]
Robbie Henstrom
Hi Mark, and thank you for your interest in our products. The pulley we run on the 6.0L diesel is 2.15” diameter which is smaller than the OEM pulley, however the centerline of our alternator is offset about 3/8” higher than the OEM Ford alternator so the effective belt tension with the smaller pulley is almost identical. On the 6.0’s that we have tested on, their idle speed has been closer to 650 RPM’s and idle output is between 140-150 amps at operating temp, so it will be slightly higher with your higher idle speed. If you are looking purely for idle output, we have our new 270XP alternators available now (they are not currently up on the website yet). These alternators will do about 180 amps at idle no problem on your 6.0. I’ll give you a link to one we did an install on last week on a 7.3L, but because the 6.0’s have higher idle speeds and better pulley ratios the idle output of that alternator will be higher on a 6.0L PSD. I have these alternator's on special this month for $529 as well.
If you really don’t need something bigger than the 190, it’s hands down the best 200 amp class alternator money can buy and will easily out perform any other 200 amp 6G based alternator out there. If you do need something bigger, then the XP alternator is hands down the best alternator as it has no compromises and is the best alternator money can buy.
If you have any other questions about the alternator or need additional information, please don't hesitate to ask.
Here is a link to the video for your reference. [color=#0000ff]
Robbie Henstrom
bismic, you seem to have an inside track, I came up with a few questions if you wouldn't mine passing on to the CEO:
1. Are their alternators at full current rated continuous duty?
2. What is the max temp rise above ambient at full rated output current?
3. At what RPM is full rated output current reached, maybe plot of output current vs RPM?
4. How large a load dump and also transients could be expected turning
on and off full current loads?
Generally speaking the higher capacity alternators will have higher load dump and much larger transients when large loads are turn on then off. These loads could be snow plows, winches, heater blowers, wiper motors, transfer case motors, large lighting loads, jumping another car with a dead batery, etc.
If DC Power has done their home work they will have all this information charted and be willing to brag on how good their units are in comparision to the competition. This testing does cost money and one would expect to have to pay a little extra for a performance product, other wise they are like the others throwing a bunch of parts together, charging more $$ and not delivering anything different.
The main reason I ask about the load dump and transient performance is because I believe that it might be transients on the 12V which may be one cause of shortening the life of our FICM. The FETS(55V) and DC converter caps (35V) can be damaged by transients (up to 120V can be present due to load dump and turning loads on/off) but yet not completely fail. However the damage part may become "leaky" and work for a while which we call these damaged parts "walking wounded" but will eventually fail in the end.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
Open that, and you need this:
What I see as the real problem -
There is a set of hunches and knowhow associated with any "mods", an implicit understanding of how changing one thing may lead to trouble in another area.
In most mechanical mods, the failures are progressive rather than abrupt.
When it fails, or give signs of failing, it is often visible, and it leaves lots of telltales so that it can be readily understood, and addressed in the "next" iteration.
e.g. higher fuel pressure (the bb mod) do not expose the fuel system to serious issues within the relevant range.
The difference with electronic and electrical and software mods is by and large, the additional (non-mechanical) stresses on the system are not visible.
Even the most basic roadmap - high level block diagrams, let alone actual circuit diagrams - are not available in many cases.
In the case of information that is commonly available (e.g. data on connectors, insulation, solder characteristics), I have yet to see many electronics modders demonstrate the level of knowledge needed to do good mods.
e.g. what are the parameters of solder (A) vs. solder (B) and how much "headroom" does it give someone in changing the TDP?
Or a simple question like: over a projected life of 10 years, what are the characteristics of the materials (insulation) I am using and how will changes impact on system reliability.
How much does what I am doing change the thermal design characteristics of the subsystem? How close am I approaching the limits of the PCB? solder? Devices?
These are very basic, common questions that must be asked to do good mods - yet, I have rarely seen them discussed.
Virtually none of the modders have a modest set of diagnostics tools commonly used in electronics, failure analysis, and reverse engineering.
Critically, very few out there have the "horse sense" or common sense knowledge of materials, devices, sub-assemblies, etc. that can help one make informed decisions of what can be changed and what cannot, and how much can be varied safely.
So what is "different" is that modders are by and large, shooting blind without really knowing what / how / why they are doing "works" or fails, or what sort of hidden failures are out there.
Whats more, there are very few EEs out there that really have a broad knowledge of the field - it is far more narrow and specialized than mechanical engineering / auto engineering.
Go to SAE vs. IEEE, and you really see considerably differences in fragmentation.
The sub-specialty of auto electronics is one of the specialties of specialties, that have only a handful of people who really have serous broad, system level knowledge.
Without that base of knowledge out there, mods tend to be not entirely satisfactory and often, with predictable consequences.
Mountain Pass
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 225
Likes: 4
From: ILL relocated to Ozarks
Open that, and you need this:
What I see as the real problem -
There is a set of hunches and knowhow associated with any "mods", an implicit understanding of how changing one thing may lead to trouble in another area.
In most mechanical mods, the failures are progressive rather than abrupt.
When it fails, or give signs of failing, it is often visible, and it leaves lots of telltales so that it can be readily understood, and addressed in the "next" iteration.
e.g. higher fuel pressure (the bb mod) do not expose the fuel system to serious issues within the relevant range.
The difference with electronic and electrical and software mods is by and large, the additional (non-mechanical) stresses on the system are not visible.
Even the most basic roadmap - high level block diagrams, let alone actual circuit diagrams - are not available in many cases.
In the case of information that is commonly available (e.g. data on connectors, insulation, solder characteristics), I have yet to see many electronics modders demonstrate the level of knowledge needed to do good mods.
e.g. what are the parameters of solder (A) vs. solder (B) and how much "headroom" does it give someone in changing the TDP?
Or a simple question like: over a projected life of 10 years, what are the characteristics of the materials (insulation) I am using and how will changes impact on system reliability.
How much does what I am doing change the thermal design characteristics of the subsystem? How close am I approaching the limits of the PCB? solder? Devices?
These are very basic, common questions that must be asked to do good mods - yet, I have rarely seen them discussed.
Virtually none of the modders have a modest set of diagnostics tools commonly used in electronics, failure analysis, and reverse engineering.
Critically, very few out there have the "horse sense" or common sense knowledge of materials, devices, sub-assemblies, etc. that can help one make informed decisions of what can be changed and what cannot, and how much can be varied safely.
So what is "different" is that modders are by and large, shooting blind without really knowing what / how / why they are doing "works" or fails, or what sort of hidden failures are out there.
Whats more, there are very few EEs out there that really have a broad knowledge of the field - it is far more narrow and specialized than mechanical engineering / auto engineering.
Go to SAE vs. IEEE, and you really see considerably differences in fragmentation.
The sub-specialty of auto electronics is one of the specialties of specialties, that have only a handful of people who really have serous broad, system level knowledge.
Without that base of knowledge out there, mods tend to be not entirely satisfactory and often, with predictable consequences.
What I see as the real problem -
There is a set of hunches and knowhow associated with any "mods", an implicit understanding of how changing one thing may lead to trouble in another area.
In most mechanical mods, the failures are progressive rather than abrupt.
When it fails, or give signs of failing, it is often visible, and it leaves lots of telltales so that it can be readily understood, and addressed in the "next" iteration.
e.g. higher fuel pressure (the bb mod) do not expose the fuel system to serious issues within the relevant range.
The difference with electronic and electrical and software mods is by and large, the additional (non-mechanical) stresses on the system are not visible.
Even the most basic roadmap - high level block diagrams, let alone actual circuit diagrams - are not available in many cases.
In the case of information that is commonly available (e.g. data on connectors, insulation, solder characteristics), I have yet to see many electronics modders demonstrate the level of knowledge needed to do good mods.
e.g. what are the parameters of solder (A) vs. solder (B) and how much "headroom" does it give someone in changing the TDP?
Or a simple question like: over a projected life of 10 years, what are the characteristics of the materials (insulation) I am using and how will changes impact on system reliability.
How much does what I am doing change the thermal design characteristics of the subsystem? How close am I approaching the limits of the PCB? solder? Devices?
These are very basic, common questions that must be asked to do good mods - yet, I have rarely seen them discussed.
Virtually none of the modders have a modest set of diagnostics tools commonly used in electronics, failure analysis, and reverse engineering.
Critically, very few out there have the "horse sense" or common sense knowledge of materials, devices, sub-assemblies, etc. that can help one make informed decisions of what can be changed and what cannot, and how much can be varied safely.
So what is "different" is that modders are by and large, shooting blind without really knowing what / how / why they are doing "works" or fails, or what sort of hidden failures are out there.
Whats more, there are very few EEs out there that really have a broad knowledge of the field - it is far more narrow and specialized than mechanical engineering / auto engineering.
Go to SAE vs. IEEE, and you really see considerably differences in fragmentation.
The sub-specialty of auto electronics is one of the specialties of specialties, that have only a handful of people who really have serous broad, system level knowledge.
Without that base of knowledge out there, mods tend to be not entirely satisfactory and often, with predictable consequences.
Very well said
now what did the Ford team, International, Siemens and/or who ever else was involved in the FICM design learn with all their engineering design capability and expertise ("sub-specialty of auto electronics is one of the specialties of specialties")? I don't even need to go into the chaffing issue and everything else??????? Going from the 7 seven screw to the four screw FICM seems like just a carry over of all the original problems. Things appear so bad in getting basic problems resolved that the hobbyist have to come up with a viable redesign! 
OK, OK.... I give them the fact that going from 7 to 4 screw was a cost reduction. 
Thread Starter
|
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,893
Likes: 3,611
Feedback is on hold until I install my new alternator. It should be installed tonight. I knew my alternator output was weak, but at 13.8V (after glow plugs shutdown) I just put it off. When the dealership installed the new FICM, my FICM voltage (input) reading on the DashDAQ acted a little funny and did not get over 13.6. Day before yesterday, I got a DTC on low FICM voltage. I immediatley ordered the DC-Power alternator and will install it tonight.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 4,460
Likes: 14
From: The Land Of Time
I think its my fault we got off track...Sorry for disrupting your thread on PHP FICM's Mark.
Let me know how you like the DC Power Alt. I will be ordering one within the next week or so.
Again sorry for the derailment.
Sarge
Let me know how you like the DC Power Alt. I will be ordering one within the next week or so.
Again sorry for the derailment.
Sarge
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Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
Likes: 7
From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
Just bad and shameful of you two to do that. Tsk Tsk.
Lead Driver
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 5,139
Likes: 209
Excuse me? 
I think you're sitting in the corner along with the rest of us on this one.
Imagine the poor guy that finds this in a search a year from now..
I think you're sitting in the corner along with the rest of us on this one. Imagine the poor guy that finds this in a search a year from now..
Thread Starter
|
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,893
Likes: 3,611
I almost started a new thread (LOL) .................. Oh well
So far, I am really enjoying the tuned FICM. Nice power (noticeably better power, but in reality it is not by much) and I may be getting abut 1 mpg improvement.
I have not yet been able to drive my "routine" route to-and-from work for a full tank, so the fuel economy improvement is unsubstantiated.
The installation of the DC Power alternator (and my experiments with the wiring upgrade) took me out of my routine. I hope to have some consistent data on my mpg's in a week or so.
The DC power alternator is quite nice. I am consistently at 14.4V soon after start-up. No belt squeeks w/ the smaller pulley. I have "clamped" the alternator wires a few times (I piggy-backed the larger wire) but I can not really tell what amps I am getting at idle. I need to introduce a load I guess.
I have designed my next project - it will be a 2500W power inverter. I have the Battery Isolator specified and I think I have picked out the Inverter. I am looking for a circuit breaker and then I will be all set.
I will say it again, I hate electricity (all the EE's in school were, uhmmm, different). However, I am definitely excited about this project!!
So far, I am really enjoying the tuned FICM. Nice power (noticeably better power, but in reality it is not by much) and I may be getting abut 1 mpg improvement.
I have not yet been able to drive my "routine" route to-and-from work for a full tank, so the fuel economy improvement is unsubstantiated.
The installation of the DC Power alternator (and my experiments with the wiring upgrade) took me out of my routine. I hope to have some consistent data on my mpg's in a week or so.
The DC power alternator is quite nice. I am consistently at 14.4V soon after start-up. No belt squeeks w/ the smaller pulley. I have "clamped" the alternator wires a few times (I piggy-backed the larger wire) but I can not really tell what amps I am getting at idle. I need to introduce a load I guess.
I have designed my next project - it will be a 2500W power inverter. I have the Battery Isolator specified and I think I have picked out the Inverter. I am looking for a circuit breaker and then I will be all set.
I will say it again, I hate electricity (all the EE's in school were, uhmmm, different). However, I am definitely excited about this project!!
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
The DC power alternator is quite nice. I am consistently at 14.4V soon after start-up. No belt squeeks w/ the smaller pulley. I have "clamped" the alternator wires a few times (I piggy-backed the larger wire) but I can not really tell what amps I am getting at idle. I need to introduce a load I guess.
I have designed my next project - it will be a 2500W power inverter. I have the Battery Isolator specified and I think I have picked out the Inverter. I am looking for a circuit breaker and then I will be all set.
I will say it again, I hate electricity (all the EE's in school were, uhmmm, different). However, I am definitely excited about this project!!
I have designed my next project - it will be a 2500W power inverter. I have the Battery Isolator specified and I think I have picked out the Inverter. I am looking for a circuit breaker and then I will be all set.
I will say it again, I hate electricity (all the EE's in school were, uhmmm, different). However, I am definitely excited about this project!!
EEs come in 2 personalities, electronics and power people, and they don't like each other much either!
Your installation is looking good --- 2500 watt is an awful lot of power, which means $$$ for the inverter, heavy gauge cables (and short runs), cooling fans, and decisions like you want sine wave (real money) or modified sine (much cheaper).
With electrical, you get what you pay for. Top quality, high % duty cycle inverters will set you back a small mortgage payment.
Plus, you would not be able to pull 2500 watt for long without draining batteries.
Consider resettable circuit breakers rather than fuses.... knowing you!
You are doing great. Have fun.
Thread Starter
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Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,893
Likes: 3,611
I have found a 2000 watt pure sine wave inverter for reasonable $$'s. I may prefer that over the 2500W modified sine wave unit.
I will have a third battery installed in the bed of the truck. It appears that 2/0 gauge wire from the Isolator will be fine (maybe 8 feet I guess?).
I will definitely get a resettable CB.
I will post up my choices a little later this evening. My list is on my other computer.
I will have a third battery installed in the bed of the truck. It appears that 2/0 gauge wire from the Isolator will be fine (maybe 8 feet I guess?).
I will definitely get a resettable CB.
I will post up my choices a little later this evening. My list is on my other computer.