Sad but true
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
Sad but true
I am extremely disappointed in the I6 300. Power wise, with all the mods and $ I have in my engine, with 3.31 rear gears and an automatic C6, I can not beat a bone stock Toyota Camry up the onramp!!!
After researching this engine for four or five months, I can only find a few small advantages over a v8: Timing gears add life to the engine, and it produces peak torque at a lower rpm than a v8. That is it.
To get considerable power out of these engines it takes major work and money. And then you find that if you had done the some work (for half the price) on a v8, you'd have far greater performance.
Disgusted....
After researching this engine for four or five months, I can only find a few small advantages over a v8: Timing gears add life to the engine, and it produces peak torque at a lower rpm than a v8. That is it.
To get considerable power out of these engines it takes major work and money. And then you find that if you had done the some work (for half the price) on a v8, you'd have far greater performance.
Disgusted....
Tuned
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 386
Likes: 3
From: Whitmore lake Mi
Sorry to hear you are disappointed. It seems with all of your research you would have known these were the limitations of this power plant. Maybe you have learned what Ford learned and is the reason for them not pursuing this engine with further development. Maybe it's turbo time? Just thump yourself on the forehead and say... PFFF coulda had a V8! 
Jim
Jim
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,299
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From: The Vieux Ford, Kansas
I guess its kind of like building a flat head you don't do it to win races you do it because you want to be different. If we all built engines based on the cost of parts we would all have small block chevys and what a terrible world that would be. I am into Clevelands, and they do make power but the cold truth is it would be cheaper and easier to build a Windsor, but I just don't like them they are every where. Just FYI too a 09 Camry run the 1/4 in the high 16s they aren't as pathetic as they used to be, thats about as fast as the 90s SHOs and those were fast cars when new. Every thing is getting faster and that just makes us seem slower. Just love the six for what its good at and take the fact that yours makes more power than 99% of the other sixes out there as a the icing on the cake.
-John
-John
Elder User
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 647
Likes: 3
From: Brumley, MO
You also have to take into account that it isn't exactly easy to swap a V8 motor. It's easy as far as swaps go, but it's not that easy. Unless you just want crazy amounts of power you would just be better off with whatever motor you had to begin with. If you do want crazy amounts of power money isn't going to matter anyway. I had a 94 F-150 5.8 with a cam, and a 06 5.4, and neither one of those trucks would run with a newer Camry.
Cranky Old Guy
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 3,562
Likes: 6
From: Raphine, Virginia
Truck vs Camry. That doesn't surprise me. First factor to consider is power to weight ratio. Could he still beat you with the same weight, not to mention, what can you haul in a Camry? Throw a ton of gravel in the back of each and see who comes out ahead.
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 7,987
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From: Boise, Idaho
That's about 16 lbs per horsepower.
Your truck is probably 4500 lbs, and you're probably around 190 - 210hp, if everything's tuned right. Which is 23 lbs per horsepower.
You'd have to get the engine up to around 280 hp before you'd have the same power to weight ratio. Even with a V8, that's a bit of mods.
I've beat cars off the line on my mountain bike before, simply because the power to weight ratio was so different. Of course, I didn't get very far, but the point still remains.
Don't let it get to you. It's apples and oranges.
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Senior User
Joined: Jul 2007
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F-250 restorer, I know exactly what you are talking about. I collected for 3 years planned everything out and spent alot of money (and a couple of lost arguments w/wife) on my motor. The truck is faster then it was before I rebuilt it. but I had the same motor and trans. It has a 4 bbl and headers and other tweaks that should make it faster. I do have some disappointments with the engine. But on the other hand I enjoyed it. I enjoyed the fabbing work on the valve cover and the intake I built and knowing that I am the only one around that has a straight six ford. I also parked my truck in between 8 other ford trucks at a local truck show and they all had v8's that probably would have smoked my truck, but everyone stopped to look at mine because of being different. everyone has seen a FE big block they all look the same. As far as money goes, if we work on are trucks to make money we would all be broke. Be proud no matter what motor you built.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 8,521
Likes: 16
From: Lost
LOL. A few years back, I hauled a buddy's replica cobra to a ford/shelby meet at a road course. The battery in the race car (the cobra replica) wouldn't crank over the 351C, so I snagged the battery out of my truck. Being in a bit of a hurry, and having my hands full of battery, I left the hood up. There were many people that went out of their way to look under the hood of the truck, and they lingered for a bit. Since the truck was nosed up near the fence, a full 50 feet beyond where most of the cars were located, it really surprised me to see that many folks venture that far to look at a totally stock 300.......
Elder User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 537
Likes: 0
From: LaGrande,Ore
As had been said ..apples and oranges. I know of a person who raced 300s against 350 chevys on the circle track. With the most he ever spent on an engine build being 1500.00. Competing with 10,000.00 engines, he made believers out of that crowd. A true one gear race car, while the others had to shift. Point being he used the engines attributes to his advantage. I'm sad that your sad, after all the work and disappointments you've had with this project, you deserve to enjoy it. Not be disappointed with it. While I've driven, owned, and worked on rice burners, and thier technology is advanced they will never compete on a level playing field for which the engines were designed. OBCB
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Lead Driver
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 7,182
Likes: 380
From: Near Los Angeles
It's taken two days, but I am slowly getting over the ultimate humiliation...to a chick!!
I love my engine, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. But I want to get rubber in all four gears, and I only have three. They made a good point over on Fordsix, saying that the 300 was designed to simulate a tractor engine, sacrificing high rpms for power in the 0--2,500 rpm range, where you need it for towing, etc.
I am going to adjust the modulator on the trans to shift a bit later. I also need to dial in the carb. The secondaries are only opening in first and second at peak rpm, right before it shifts.
AJ heating--As they say in Mexico, the man always has the last word in the house. And that is: "yes, dear."
I love my engine, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. But I want to get rubber in all four gears, and I only have three. They made a good point over on Fordsix, saying that the 300 was designed to simulate a tractor engine, sacrificing high rpms for power in the 0--2,500 rpm range, where you need it for towing, etc.
I am going to adjust the modulator on the trans to shift a bit later. I also need to dial in the carb. The secondaries are only opening in first and second at peak rpm, right before it shifts.
AJ heating--As they say in Mexico, the man always has the last word in the house. And that is: "yes, dear."
Elder User
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 566
Likes: 1
I guess its kind of like building a flat head you don't do it to win races you do it because you want to be different. If we all built engines based on the cost of parts we would all have small block chevys and what a terrible world that would be. I am into Clevelands, and they do make power but the cold truth is it would be cheaper and easier to build a Windsor, but I just don't like them they are every where. Just FYI too a 09 Camry run the 1/4 in the high 16s they aren't as pathetic as they used to be, thats about as fast as the 90s SHOs and those were fast cars when new. Every thing is getting faster and that just makes us seem slower. Just love the six for what its good at and take the fact that yours makes more power than 99% of the other sixes out there as a the icing on the cake.
-John
-John
The new V6s will dip in the 14s. I rode in a 2009 model and it was surprisingly quick for a 6 cylinder family car. I think the newer ones are 250 + horses.
I like the 300 because they seldom act up, have great low end, and last forever. No timing belts to break or aluminum head troubles.
As much as I like my 300 in the van, a FI 351 auto overdrive would be much quicker and probably get better fuel economy.
