I don't mind hard to work on. Sometimes things are hard to reach and take longer than normal to do. Like taking a head off of a 5.0 vs a 5.4 or a 7.3 vs a 6.0. Or changing spark plugs in a 5.0 vs a 5.4. There was a guy in the 6.4 forum a while back talking about having to remove the cab to change a turbo o-ring. That is a 10 cent part that is going to go bad no matter how good you take care of your truck. Anything rubber is going to degrade over time. When Ford gives me no choice but to take it to them and pay $1k labor or build a $30k garage and install a $3k lift, I refuse to give them my money. The 6.4 is great for people that buy a new vehicle every 5 years and trade it in before the warranty runs out(which is what Ford wants), but I keep mine until they fall apart.

 

How many miles do you put on your vehicle thinking that a truck's factory warranty is going to last 5 yrs? I'm always past the 100k warranty long before mine hits five years. More like 2.5 yrs and it's gone. Now that is me and my particular situation, but if a person actually makes it for 5 yrs before they break 100k, then something needs to be looked at(as far as if they really need the truck versus want it).

Depending on your age, eventually you are going to have to deal with the newer trucks at some point. In the end, the constant repairs of an older vehicle are going to cost more then just upgrading. Even if you can do the work(and not everyone can), the frequency of work will be the problem.

 

On average I drive about 50k miles per year, but I divide that up between several vehicles. It would not be uncommon for me to still be under the warranty mileage on a vehicle after 5 years, even though I do "need" it. My mom has a 1996 model car that she bought in 1998 with 60k miles on it and she still hasn't hit 100k miles(91k to be exact). It's her only car too. There are people who "need" a truck but don't drive it 20k miles per year.

It's not the newer trucks that bother me. I wouldn't hesitate to buy a 6.7 at all because they fixed the cab removal problem. I just refuse to buy something from Ford when they design it with no other purpose than to screw me into paying them to work on my trucks. I walked away from a brand new Escape back in 2006 because the dealer told me I HAD to bring it them for oil changes until the warranty ran out. It was a certain package car that I really wanted and they were the only dealer that had one on the lot. I went to my normal dealer and special ordered it(had to wait 6 weeks to get it though) simply because they lied to me. They lost a $26k sale because they got greedy and wanted to make another $200 on oil changes.

I had already bought about 8 cars from the dealer I ended up getting it from. He told me he would give me one free oil change for coming back to them. When I took it in for the oil change they came back and handed me a bill for $45 for stuff like checking coolant level, topping off wiper fluid, checking belt tension and wear, etc. I didn't ask them to do the work and I didn't pay for, and I won't buy another car from them either. For me, it's about being fair and honest with the consumer, not about how new it is or hard it is to work on.

 

Not sure you thought that one through, Tex. Lots of RV'rs need a truck, but may only drive a few thousand miles a year. They surely cannot use a sedan for that.

???

 

I stand corrected. You and bpounds got me on that one.




Is that Ford's doing or is that due to the dealership that you were at? Did you check into that with Ford or did the dealership just say that's what Ford told them to do? Or did they say anything to that at all?

I'm still seeing dealership issue, not really Ford the company told you this, that or the other. If that was a company policy that you had to go to a Ford dealership for all repairs to be done under warranty, I would imagine I would have heard about that. They didn't tell me when I bought my 2010 that I had to go to the dealership to get warranty work done. Surely by 2010 that would be applicable to all Ford vehicles not just the Escape if that was a company policy. We also had a very lengthy conversation about warranty and such as well. They only had one finance guy that closes the deal there(I didn't finance my truck, I don't believe in doing that), but you have to deal with him to close out the deal. They only thing I didn't like was that they were trying to hock this 1k off if you finance thru them. I sure as hell wasn't going to do that. Kinda made me mad on that since I was very clear it was an all cash deal.

That is sounding more and more like a dealership issue more then a company one. Which I don't blame you for not giving them the sale, I wouldn't have either. However, I don't see how you can blame Ford if the dealership trys to run one on the consumer.

 

My issues with my Escape were purely dealership issues. I was just using that as example of how if you treat me fairly you will continue to get my business. If not, I have no problems going elsewhere. I won't buy something just because it's a Ford or because the dealer has been good to me in the past.

My issue with Ford the company is that they designed a truck that you can't do work to unless you pull the cab. They did that for no other reason than to keep people from working on their trucks themselves. I don't agree with that kind of thinking and I won't support it by buying one.

Just like with the Mustang. One month after they announce the official numbers on the new 5.0 and how great it is, they turn around an announce that in 2014 they are either going keep the 5.0 or make the Mustang a global car on par size wise with a small BMW and give it a turbo v6. The day the Mustang is a compact car with a v6, made to compete with crap like the Honda s2000, will be the day I never buy another one(other than an old one).

 

Now seriously, did you even try and think this through?

Please present one shred of evidence to support this claim.

The engine was sourced directly from Navistar, who designed and built the engine not just for SDs, but for their line of medium duty trucks. Ford did not modify the SD body to receive this engine, just as they did not redesign the entire rest of the truck.

So you have an engine from a supplier that happens to fit under the hood of the truck, but is a bear to service. Navistar doesn't benefit from cab-off repairs, and they designed and built the engines!

 

The only evidence I need is at the Ford garage. The 6.4 body style is the only one that is sitting there with the cab above it. Ford has slowly been moving their engines farther and farther back since the 60's and now we have engines that sit halfway under the dash. On my 60's model cars I can use a ratchet with a 3" extension to take out the bellhousing bolts. On my 80/90's models, I can use a ratchet with no extension, but I can still get them easily. On my 5.4, I have never even seen a bellhousing bolt from up top. Dodge and Chevy both have engines that are bigger (cubic inch and length) than the Ford 6.4, but neither of them have issues because engines are where the should be(under the hood, not dash).

Ford knew there was a problem getting to certain things on the 6.0 and instead of investing a little time and money into coming up a design that would make them easier to get to, they come up with a design that makes them impossible to get to and ways to make the cab easier to remove. As far back as the engines sit they could almost cut an access panel in the floor so you could get to things in no time. It works on vans, so why not a truck?

Edit-Yes Navi designed the 6.4, but take a look at the maxxforce 7 and the 6.4. You will notice that the maxxforce has the turbo on top of the engine and the 6.4 is beside of the transmission. When ford gets an engine from Navi it is missing the fuel injectors and turbo. That is why the 6.4 has sequential turbos and the maxxforce has a single variable vane. Having to remove the cab to get to the turbo is 100% Fords fault because that is where they put it.

6.4
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2813...01440264ZZGwrm

maxxforce 7
http://maxxforce.com/Content/Images/...maxxforce7.jpg

 

The cab off for servicing may have a lot to do with both companies knowing the relationship was going to end in the near future.

Both companies probably knew they were not going to be doing business anymore, so why would navistar include the SD body style in their designs and why would ford change the body for navistar engines when both companies knew they would be parting ways.

 

Please tell me that this is a joke.
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Really? Beside the tranny?

I just went out and took this picture just for you, Josh!



And you're right, the 2007 Maxxforce 7 has only one turbo. But the 2010 engine has two!

 

Josh, you look at that at think, trouble. I look at that and think, engineering masterpiece.

You might be happier with a Dodge. Get the new one, with the Confabulator.

 

Yes, I realize that is a picture of the turbo after it is removed. That's why the caption says "picture of turbo removed from my truck."

I have never had the hood up on a 6.4, but I read an article a while back(in a diesel magazine, I think diesel power) where they were complaining that the turbo was located under the back half of the engine, close to the tranny, and that on the new 6.7 the turbo had been relocated to its rightful place on top of the engine. So I just assumed they laid it there after they took it loose.

Edit-and not trying to make a joke. Trust me, I have seen turbos mounted in some weird places before. One guy actually had his mounted inside of the car because he didn't have room for it.

 

I don't look at the engine and think trouble. I look at my SD and think that whoever designed it needs to be beaten. There is 2' of space in front of my 5.4 that could easily hold an engine, but the engine has all but the front two cylinders UNDER the cowl. My OBS is a smaller truck, smaller engine compartment and much bigger engine than my 5.4, but I can reach down and touch the transmission from up top. If they can fit a bigger engine(one designed by Navi also) into a smaller truck with room to spare, why was it so hard to do it with the SD?

I wouldn't be happier with a Dodge. If I would be, I would have got one when they were having them half off at the going out of business sale a while back. 6.0, 5.4, 7.3 and 6.8 can all be worked on without the cab being removed and the 6.4 can't. I would be more than happy to have any of the others sitting in my driveway, but not the 6.4. The guy that I posted his picture, he had a bad o-ring. A 10 cent part. Just to fix that one o-ring he has to remove the cab, drain all his coolant, get his a/c charged and be without his truck for 3 days. Not for me.

 

the engine being further back in the truck has nothing to do with some great conspiracy against do it yourselfers, it has to do with getting the weight closer to the center of the vehicle for better handling, the fact that the sd cab was designed to come off was because techs were taking bodies off of the sd's with 6.0's and big wigs at ford saw that and figured they would design it to make it easier to work on. oh and everything on the 6.4 has a body on and body off directions for removing in the workshop manual