Ford has offically lost touch with reality
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6
We may not like this.. but the days when we can drive big trucks (unless we are commercial operators with a real business to support it) is nearly over.
The rules and regulations coming in for fuel economy, rising maintenance costs, and fuel costs, are going to hammer the existing "big truck" crowd.
While no one is saying anything, I fully expect the F-150 lines to completely diverge from the F-250/350 lines completely.
It is conceivable that the next F-150 will be:
A) a unibody
That means no towing above 6,000 lbs or so
B) no engine choice beyond the 4.6
C) the 4.4 diesel may see the light of day.
It will basically be a beefed up version of the Honda pickup.
There will always be need for bigger trucks, but that will be F-250s / 350s / 450s that are squarely in the medium duty camp, with prices to match.
Take a good hard look at what Ford is doing with the E series.
The E-series up to E-250 and perhaps E-350 is being replaced in 2014 with a European style Transit (not the small Transit connect) and probably will come with small diesels in the 3 to 5 liter range.
There will be E-series in medium duty --- but they will be expensive.
The rules and regulations coming in for fuel economy, rising maintenance costs, and fuel costs, are going to hammer the existing "big truck" crowd.
While no one is saying anything, I fully expect the F-150 lines to completely diverge from the F-250/350 lines completely.
It is conceivable that the next F-150 will be:
A) a unibody
That means no towing above 6,000 lbs or so
B) no engine choice beyond the 4.6
C) the 4.4 diesel may see the light of day.
It will basically be a beefed up version of the Honda pickup.
There will always be need for bigger trucks, but that will be F-250s / 350s / 450s that are squarely in the medium duty camp, with prices to match.
Take a good hard look at what Ford is doing with the E series.
The E-series up to E-250 and perhaps E-350 is being replaced in 2014 with a European style Transit (not the small Transit connect) and probably will come with small diesels in the 3 to 5 liter range.
There will be E-series in medium duty --- but they will be expensive.
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
Josh what options did the KR have that you saw? What options did the 2011 Lariat have? Just because it's a KR doesn't mean it has ALL the options (like Nav, Sunroof, etc). Those options alone can make up 13K. I understand 63K is lot for a truck but you are not making a fair comparison.
My biggest thing is they were all King Ranch, long bed, duallys and this is a lariat, short bed srw. It may have more "useless" options on it, but to me, it's a lower trim, smaller bed, less heavy duty truck and $13k more.
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
I am complaining because I never thought I would see the day that a FORD would cost almost $65k. I also never thought I would see the day that so many people defended that kind of price on a truck.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
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From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
Globalization is probably the single biggest contributing factor in the hike in prices that I haven't seen people mention in this thread. Now I'm not talking about the demand specifically for vehicles, but the raw materials that go into making those vehicles is what is really what is affected by globalization.
Now, you start adding in other factors such as economy, the exhange rates etc, that all adds into the value of those vehicles or how much sting that price has to each one of us.
In the end, we bitch at change at first, then we accept make adjustments to be able to do what we want and then we move on. People have a short memory in that regard.
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2003
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I don't buy KRs because I don't like the leather. I do own a Ford GT500; I don't like calling it a Shelby because I didn't like having to pay the premium for the Shelby name the same applies the KR. No need to give the KR ranch in Texas any of the money I pay for a truck. There was no need for Ford the give Shelby any of the money I paid for my GT500.
That being said people have already paid out the door $53,000 for the truck you are saying cost $65,000. Just because you don’t think it’s happened doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. I know the KR in 06, cost more then my Lariat, about $6,000 more if I remember correctly, same truck otherwise. You have been pricing 2 different levels of trim, no two ways around it.
Just about every post I’ve seen of yours has been Fords can’t do this or that or Fords price is more them GMs or Fiats.
I have priced GMs against Ford. My experience is GM is about 8% higher then Fords. I did go look at a few Fiats the other day. I can’t remember the prices because I would never seriously consider buying a Dodge. I want a truck that going to last.
That being said people have already paid out the door $53,000 for the truck you are saying cost $65,000. Just because you don’t think it’s happened doesn’t mean it hasn’t happened. I know the KR in 06, cost more then my Lariat, about $6,000 more if I remember correctly, same truck otherwise. You have been pricing 2 different levels of trim, no two ways around it.
Just about every post I’ve seen of yours has been Fords can’t do this or that or Fords price is more them GMs or Fiats.
I have priced GMs against Ford. My experience is GM is about 8% higher then Fords. I did go look at a few Fiats the other day. I can’t remember the prices because I would never seriously consider buying a Dodge. I want a truck that going to last.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 3,974
Likes: 18
From: Millersburg, OH
Maybe so but whether you find the options "useless" or not without knowing what both vehicle have in them that you are comparing you are making a very unfair comparison when talking about price.
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 10,626
Likes: 7
From: Plano TX and Brentwood TN
I don't buy KRs because I don't like the leather. I do own a Ford GT500; I don't like calling it a Shelby because I didn't like having to pay the premium for the Shelby name the same applies the KR. No need to give the KR ranch in Texas any of the money I pay for a truck. There was no need for Ford the give Shelby any of the money I paid for my GT500.
Think of it this way, by giving money to the KR for the KR option in the trucks, you're helping out my relatives. They do a lot of work for KR(not in the ranch day to day operations, but in other work), so help KR be able to pay it's bills, helps out my relatives.
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
Not many life saving crews want a 6.0 that is going to leave them stranded when they have a heart attack patient in the back. Not many businesses(or people) want a truck that you have to remove the cab to do anything but change the oil(6.4). What police force is going to choose a big Crown Vic with a 4.6 to chase someone down when a ~380 hp dodge that weighs a lot less is available?
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
Edit-checked the weights and the Vic is only about 300 pounds heavier, so not as bad as I thought, but was listed at 224 hp to the Chargers 380 hp. The Vic is over a foot longer and 3" wider, so it just looks a lot more bulky/heavier compared to his Charger.
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: Rogersville, TN
You know my grandfather never thought he would see the day that cars cost more then 3k and that's brand spanking new, he saw that before he died in '84.
In the end, we bitch at change at first, then we accept make adjustments to be able to do what we want and then we move on. People have a short memory in that regard.
In the end, we bitch at change at first, then we accept make adjustments to be able to do what we want and then we move on. People have a short memory in that regard.
I know inflation plays a role, but it doesn't seem like the inflation of cars has stayed in line with the inflation of incomes. These numbers come from the US census if anyone needs to verify.... In 1969 the average middle class household had an income of $7k and in 2006(as recent as the page shows) it was $37k. In 1969 you could buy a new Boss 429 Mustang and an F series truck for around $6-7k combined, or one years salary. You can't even buy a SD on a years salary for the average person now, much less that and a mustang. A decent SD and mustang is going to set you back at least $75k, or two years salary now.
It's like houses where I live. Since 1995 home values have almost tripled here, but salaries are pretty much the same. In 1995, $60k would buy a 2,500 square foot brick house in a nice subdivision with about half an acre of land(my parents house). Now their house appraises for $175k and you can't even buy the vacant 1/3 of an acre lot beside of them for less than $40k. I built my house in 2004 and it is already worth $45k more than I paid for it.
You Keep What You Kill
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 4,902
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From: Huntersville, NC
I am a loyal Ford fan, but don't think I won't complain when I see them do something absolutely stupid that is going to push people towards buying another brand. I don't like that I am seeing virtually all new highway dept trucks around here being a Chevy instead of a Ford. I don't like that all the new cop cars around here are Chargers instead of of Ford. I am even starting to see Dodge ambulances now. All of that is because of of stupid decisions Ford has made.
Not many life saving crews want a 6.0 that is going to leave them stranded when they have a heart attack patient in the back. Not many businesses(or people) want a truck that you have to remove the cab to do anything but change the oil(6.4). What police force is going to choose a big Crown Vic with a 4.6 to chase someone down when a ~380 hp dodge that weighs a lot less is available?
Not many life saving crews want a 6.0 that is going to leave them stranded when they have a heart attack patient in the back. Not many businesses(or people) want a truck that you have to remove the cab to do anything but change the oil(6.4). What police force is going to choose a big Crown Vic with a 4.6 to chase someone down when a ~380 hp dodge that weighs a lot less is available?
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Postmaster
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,724
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From: Rogersville, TN
That may be part of it too, but I also know plenty of other businesses that are going with dodge or chevy because of their problems with ford. Several that do work for us switched to dodge because of the cab issues on the 6.4. Used to, you couldn't drive by a u-haul place without seeing all fords on the lot. Now you struggle to see ONE ford on the lot. All of the ones around here are gmc. Same for penske. When a girl totaled one of my cars last year, I had to drive a chevy aveo for 3 weeks because none of the rental car places had fords.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
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From: Isanti, MN
Very true, but it's not just inflation.
Consider how much more complex cars have gotten in the past 30 years. I'd make a bet that that 2010 KR PSD 4x4 truck is more than twice as complex as it's counterpart was in 1970.
Cars and trucks today are built better, last longer, are more reliable, quieter, cleaner running, more powerful, and get better fuel economy than anything that was available back then.
This comes at a cost!
Consider how much more complex cars have gotten in the past 30 years. I'd make a bet that that 2010 KR PSD 4x4 truck is more than twice as complex as it's counterpart was in 1970.
Cars and trucks today are built better, last longer, are more reliable, quieter, cleaner running, more powerful, and get better fuel economy than anything that was available back then.
This comes at a cost!