between the 2, E40D and the 4R100 which is the better tranny? i was thinkin bout doin a 4r100 swap into my tuck and was wonderin how hard it actually was and what the similarities are between them and the differences. and if it is even worth my time in trying to do so

 

How are you going to control the 4R100? Do they make a stand alone controller for it?

 

What year did they start using the 4r100 behind the diesels. You never hear about anyone swapping them, I'm thinking there might be a reason, like maybe the bell don't match or there is not an easy to swap computer.

 

IIRC the 4r came around 3/98-04 for the strokes. It doesn't have any speed sensor either.

 

It is probably like the ZF6 and has a different bell housing pattern.

 

Stock for stock, a 4R100 is stronger than any E4OD made in the 89-91 era (era of speedometer cables). It had to be to survive the higher power output of later diesels.

If I were looking for an ideal year, I would try and get a 1995 - 1997 E4OD that came from a heavy duty application. That "should" give you all steel carriers for the planetary gears and highest possible planetary gear count (6 forward, 4 overdrive, 6 reverse).

You also have the roller bearing center support (I THINK 1994 was the first year that was available),

Higher capacity front pump (introduced 1995)

Better sprag and one way clutches started being phased in starting in 1994,

And being an E4OD, more of the internal hard parts are made of cast iron instead of stamped steel like in the 4R100 that were intended to reduce manufacturing cost.

There is in fact a long list of other upgrades that also came but those are some of the more critical of them. The list is long enough to fill a book thats as long as the overhaul manual.

Avoid 1989.

 

Dave from your post can I assume the E4OD in my 97 is about as good as I can get for a factory E4OD?


That is the only thing that has been a concern for me on the 97 so far.

 

its not a project that i plan on taking anytime soon. i really have no complaints with my E40D it shifts great and does what i need it to do when i need it to do it. it was just an idea that i had a while back because all our company trucks are 99 and up 7.3 DIs and like you said david85 the 4r100 has to be built to withstand the higher horsepower and torque output of the newer 7.3s i just wasnt sure on what might all be involved with it. and as far as the bell housing goes im not sure if they are the same or not.

 

1997 is when all of some of the best options were available. Sounds funny to think of "options" in terms of internal components for a transmission that are never advertised but E4ODs were available in a wide range of trucks and GVWR setups and internally can vary greatly. I don't know for sure if you will have steel planetary carriers in your transmission, but at the very least you should have 4 pinion aluminum carriers and thats already stronger than any stock C6.

Your tranny should hold up well as long as you don't modify the engine output significantly. If you do, then the transmission will need to be tweaked to account for the higher torque output to make sure it doesn't slip too much. And when I say "tweaked" I don't mean major internal mods. Just a mild shift kit should do it and don't use an electronic shift kit either.

The only potential weak link would be the torque converter depending on the age of the vehicle. Stock converters don't usually last as long as the rest of the transmission but it depends on how hard the vehicle is used.

If you wanted to build on a transmission for crazy upgrades, I think 1997 is probably the best year because odds are it will need the least amount of high priced parts.

 

What I noticed on a 1995 powerstroke (ZF 5 speed) is the bell housing seemed to be the same as the IDI, however all the transmission bolts root directly into the engine block instead of having the top 2 bolts off set higher up like with the IDIs. If I'm right, then it could bolt on to your engine if you take the "adaptor" plate (sometimes called the starter ring) from the powerstroke and it fits onto your IDI.

Internally, a stock 4R100 should probably take what you can throw at it, but unless you have a transfer case, you won't be able to run your speedometer if your truck is older than 1992. Running the transmission might also be a challenge but I heard swapping the solenoid body over can solve that problem. I have never done that myself however so I don't know for sure if that would work.

There were electronic changes that were made to the solenoid body in 1995 that make older controllers incompatible with newer solenoid bodies so its not going to be a case of plug and play even if you have the 92 and up setup already.

 

Why avoid 89?

 

That was the first year of the E4OD and also the weakest year with a lot of beta testing still going on thanks to ford's loyal customer base. This era in the early 90s is probably what gained ford such a poor reputation for automatic transmissions.

Mushy shifting wore out clutch packs prematurely and was worse if lots of towing was going on.

The early aluminum planetary carrier for the overdrive was weak and prone to cracking and that results in a no drive condition. Later aluminum carriers were better and were less likely to fail. (this is not avioded by locking out overdrive because the input shaft of the transmission engages this planetary BEFORE power is sent anywhere else, the overdrive carrier bears full load of the engine no matter what gear you are in).

The center support bearing was just a small, undersized bushing instead of a true ball bearing like later versions and that too was a common failure point.

Most of the sprags and one-way roller clutches were replaced in later versions with better designes that lasted longer and had more holding power.

Lower capacity pump,


Having said all that, I have still heard of 1989 E4ODs sometimes rolling over 200-300k miles but usually thats with lightly used trucks that stayed bone stock for all their lives and didn't do much towing.
1989 can be upgraded but compared to other years, you will be replacing much more parts to get the transmission to where you want it. So the build up cost will be higher.


Dave; I just double checked. 1998 was the earliest year for the steel 6 pinion setups so you definately don't have that unless it was upgraded or some sort of fluke. You most likely have 4 pinion aluminum carriers for all three

 

just doin some light reading on the net the other day just to see what i could find, people have done the swap but didnt really tell how involved the process was i didnt pursue the issue or try to find out from them but from what i read most did say they had some kind of stand alone system for the swap do you know anything about this?

 

If you are asking about a stand alone computer for the transmission, then yes, I do know about them.

I am running one in my 1986 diesel now and I love it. This is what I am using:

Baumannator TCS Electronic Transmission Control System

I'm not an easy guy to please, but I can't find much wrong with this setup. Best I know, its also the cheapest of it's kind on the market, but is still a little steep compared to a used transmission.

It might even be possible to cannibalize an E4OD solenoid body to swap parts on to a later 4R100 type solenoid body to make it compatible with the stock E4OD controller that you already have from factory. I know the 2 transmissions are very similar and might be compatible enough for such a custom part, but I can't really say if its a safe or easy thing to do. Best not to try that on your daily driver.

The dilema about the speedometer still remains however unless you have a transfer case to drive the cable. I don't know if a 4R100 can be modified to accept a speedometer cable. I do know older E4ODs could be converted during a rebuild. Tailshaft and tailhousing need to change.

 

thanks for all your help dave i appreciate it, and my idi is my daily driver thats why i havent made any plans to start this project other than reading and research. you have been a great deal of help tho, thanks again if have any other questions i now kno who to ask