A Ford Representative joining us
Lead Driver
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 7,928
Likes: 2,644
From: The Great State of Texas
I really appreciate the discussions going on here. I think it's a great idea to have the lead engineer (Adam) of the 6.7 come on this site.
A couple questions:
1. How's the test trucks performing and what's the general feedback?
2. Was there any design requirements to ensure this new engine doesn't leak oil?
Troy
A couple questions:
1. How's the test trucks performing and what's the general feedback?
2. Was there any design requirements to ensure this new engine doesn't leak oil?
Troy
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 23,174
Likes: 1,678
From: Stephensville WI
Adam, Thanks for taking time out of your day to help answer questions about these new trucks.
I have a few myself
1, Where will the PTO port be located on the transmission? I own a company that utilizes PTO ports to run mechanical driven water pumps (fire engines). However ever since 99 Ford has not built a truck that is capable of running an axillary drive shaft (off the PTO port) to run a pump, on a 4x4 model. The transfer case was always in the way. It always fried me/us (partners) because, until 08, the f550 and f450 were basically unrivaled, so we had no where else to go to get a truck that could run a drive-shaft. Why has Ford not addressed this issue in the past, and is it going to address this issue in the future? This issue has caused almost all wild land fire fighting engines to run axillary motors to run the pump, and we just found out how expensive this is to do. I just bought a 09 Dodge 5500 because they swore up and down we could run a PTO driven drive shaft for our pump, but we were sorely disappointed. Their PTO port is so high on the auto tranny the PTO would hit the floor board. (bought the truck for other reasons I will cover in a second). So we ended up buying a 3 cyl diesel motor to run our pump, cost us over $12k! So now our truck price went from $30k something + $12k just to hook a water pump up! That does not include the rest of the build. If the PTO port was actually usable on your truck, we could have saved ourselves thousands of dollars, and you probably could have sold another truck.
2. Why has Ford made (in the more recent past) their trucks so difficult to work on? Many companies (including ours) run their trucks for many years (mil and do all the work themselves. They have their own mechanics and service shops. Yet I know of several companies fed up with Ford and their lack of serviceability, and now are switching to a competitor. What is Ford doing to correct this? It is sad when you open the hood on a Ford and you cant even see the engine under all the "stuff" on top of the engine. I was watching an interview several years ago, have no idea where though. A person asked a Ford rep why they make their vehicles so hard to work on. The Ford rep basically just brushed him off and in a smug way said because Fords are designed not to break down. Give me a break, these trucks are built with wearable parts and eventually they WILL break down. It would be nice to have a truck that is actually built with maintenance and overhaul in mind. What ever happened to KISS (keep it simple stupid)
As I said earlier these are the 2 reasons why we went to a competitor. We/I wanted a truck we could work on, and a truck with some engineering behind a simple PTO port. These trucks are commercial trucks (talking about cab and chassi), so why not design them with useful features, longevity, and maintenance in mind. I bleed blue and would have loved to buy a Ford, but just could not because the lack of ease of maintenance and lack of engineering on some components.
I sure hope these issues are resolved in three years when I will be looking for yet another truck platform.
Thank you for your time, and please do not take my points personal. I am just trying to find out why there are such oversights as this.
Nic
I have a few myself
1, Where will the PTO port be located on the transmission? I own a company that utilizes PTO ports to run mechanical driven water pumps (fire engines). However ever since 99 Ford has not built a truck that is capable of running an axillary drive shaft (off the PTO port) to run a pump, on a 4x4 model. The transfer case was always in the way. It always fried me/us (partners) because, until 08, the f550 and f450 were basically unrivaled, so we had no where else to go to get a truck that could run a drive-shaft. Why has Ford not addressed this issue in the past, and is it going to address this issue in the future? This issue has caused almost all wild land fire fighting engines to run axillary motors to run the pump, and we just found out how expensive this is to do. I just bought a 09 Dodge 5500 because they swore up and down we could run a PTO driven drive shaft for our pump, but we were sorely disappointed. Their PTO port is so high on the auto tranny the PTO would hit the floor board. (bought the truck for other reasons I will cover in a second). So we ended up buying a 3 cyl diesel motor to run our pump, cost us over $12k! So now our truck price went from $30k something + $12k just to hook a water pump up! That does not include the rest of the build. If the PTO port was actually usable on your truck, we could have saved ourselves thousands of dollars, and you probably could have sold another truck.
2. Why has Ford made (in the more recent past) their trucks so difficult to work on? Many companies (including ours) run their trucks for many years (mil and do all the work themselves. They have their own mechanics and service shops. Yet I know of several companies fed up with Ford and their lack of serviceability, and now are switching to a competitor. What is Ford doing to correct this? It is sad when you open the hood on a Ford and you cant even see the engine under all the "stuff" on top of the engine. I was watching an interview several years ago, have no idea where though. A person asked a Ford rep why they make their vehicles so hard to work on. The Ford rep basically just brushed him off and in a smug way said because Fords are designed not to break down. Give me a break, these trucks are built with wearable parts and eventually they WILL break down. It would be nice to have a truck that is actually built with maintenance and overhaul in mind. What ever happened to KISS (keep it simple stupid)
As I said earlier these are the 2 reasons why we went to a competitor. We/I wanted a truck we could work on, and a truck with some engineering behind a simple PTO port. These trucks are commercial trucks (talking about cab and chassi), so why not design them with useful features, longevity, and maintenance in mind. I bleed blue and would have loved to buy a Ford, but just could not because the lack of ease of maintenance and lack of engineering on some components.
I sure hope these issues are resolved in three years when I will be looking for yet another truck platform.
Thank you for your time, and please do not take my points personal. I am just trying to find out why there are such oversights as this.
Nic
i think if you read this thread you'll find the answers to these questions.
The link to the article on the new 6 speed transmission discusses the new PTO strategy.
The ease of maintenance question has been covered. For instance, cab removal is no longer required to get at the engine components.
More Turbo
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 729
Likes: 0
Nic,
i think if you read this thread you'll find the answers to these questions.
The link to the article on the new 6 speed transmission discusses the new PTO strategy.
The ease of maintenance question has been covered. For instance, cab removal is no longer required to get at the engine components.
i think if you read this thread you'll find the answers to these questions.
The link to the article on the new 6 speed transmission discusses the new PTO strategy.
The ease of maintenance question has been covered. For instance, cab removal is no longer required to get at the engine components.
As for maintenance, the 6.0 was a cab on design yet was not very maintenance friendly. Just three weeks ago I was at the international dealership getting something for my truck. I saw a mechanic was working on 6.0 in a f450. So I asked him what he thought of the 6.0. Said he absolutely hated the 6.0, "one of the worst vehicles I work on".
Just because its a cab on doesn't mean its maintenance friendly. Maintenance to me is not just changing the oil and air filter.
Laughing Gas
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 823
Likes: 5
From: Dallas, Oregon
It seems that Adam is not just [U]an[U] engineer on the Scorpion, he is theLEAD engineer on the Scorpion!
See this article from Business Week magazine:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...2000630377.htm
Thank you Adam for spending some time with us.
We wish you complete success with this engine, for many reasons.
1) Selfish: as Ford fanatics, we want the most successful truck in the world!
2) Alruistic: we want you to succeed just because it is a nice thing.
3) Business: those of us who make a living with these trucks need something economical,reliable, and that performs well.
4) Emotional: we want to drive something cool..
5) Practical: we need to be able to afford to buy these things.
6) Sort of Practical: we need a chick magnet.
Again, thanks for chatting with us. We hope we can help you as much as you help us. We really do want to see Ford succeed.
See this article from Business Week magazine:
http://www.businessweek.com/magazine...2000630377.htm
Thank you Adam for spending some time with us.
We wish you complete success with this engine, for many reasons.
1) Selfish: as Ford fanatics, we want the most successful truck in the world!
2) Alruistic: we want you to succeed just because it is a nice thing.
3) Business: those of us who make a living with these trucks need something economical,reliable, and that performs well.
4) Emotional: we want to drive something cool..
5) Practical: we need to be able to afford to buy these things.
6) Sort of Practical: we need a chick magnet.
Again, thanks for chatting with us. We hope we can help you as much as you help us. We really do want to see Ford succeed.
Posting Guru
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1,321
Likes: 0
From: Mattawa Washington.
Well thought out response and reps sent. However, many many loyal Ford truck owners have been burned to the ground by the past diesel engine programs and they have a legitimate right to be skeptical. Ford should be grateful for thier continued loyalty as well as they are trying to earn back those who jumped ship. The fact that it was a Ford IH joint venture doesn't take Ford off the hook. That's probably why Ford smartened up and went at this new motor alone.
I am the enternal optimist. My glass is always half full and I believe that the new engine(s) coming out this year will be the best ever.
I think we should focus on intelligent and reseaonable questions for this gentleman and shy away from any grievances that we may have, IMHO.
Tim
I am the enternal optimist. My glass is always half full and I believe that the new engine(s) coming out this year will be the best ever.
I think we should focus on intelligent and reseaonable questions for this gentleman and shy away from any grievances that we may have, IMHO.
Tim
I myself am excited to see what is going to work and how well the engines will hold up amongst all the mfgs. Since I am in no hurry to buy new just yet. I love my 6.0 and want to enjoy it a little longer...
But what Ford is doing sounds very promising and tempting to buy new, if it all proves true. And hopefully those who got burned will be back, as I don't see or hear anything exciting from the competion....Lots of different ideas or tactics amongst them and none as good as Fords in my opinion.
Super Moderator
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 24,308
Likes: 42
From: SW Virginia
Adam, thanks again for joining us. I know that the questions about the output of the new 6.7 Powerstroke have been many here and you have said that the details wouldn't be released until March. However, in light of this video and information released by someone identified as a Ford representative, I was wondering if you could confirm his comments stating that the new engine produces 400 horsepower and 750 pounds of torque.
San Diego Auto Show Opens - San Diego 6
San Diego Auto Show Opens - San Diego 6
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 37,379
Likes: 1,862
From: Frederick, MD
I watch the same video as pwoerstroke72. So is this offical or did the spokesperson speak without authorization.
Also if we are looking at 750 ft of TQ then I would think towing ratings will bump up considerable.
Also if we are looking at 750 ft of TQ then I would think towing ratings will bump up considerable.
Super Moderator
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 25,479
Likes: 742
From: Isanti, MN
I seriously doubt a Ford representative would disclose such information without authorization. Especially disclosing it to a news crew!
And also I don't think this will affect tow ratings by itself. Our tow ratings aren't limited by available power so much as they are limited by the rest of the truck. Mainly due to the chassis handling the proper tongue weight for a heavier trailer.
The old T444E, what International called the 7.3, was available in applications up to 60,000 lbs GVWR! And in International form, that engine was only available with 230 HP and 620 ft-lbs of torque!
7.3, 6.0, & 6.4 L Power Stroke Specs
And also I don't think this will affect tow ratings by itself. Our tow ratings aren't limited by available power so much as they are limited by the rest of the truck. Mainly due to the chassis handling the proper tongue weight for a heavier trailer.
The old T444E, what International called the 7.3, was available in applications up to 60,000 lbs GVWR! And in International form, that engine was only available with 230 HP and 620 ft-lbs of torque!
7.3, 6.0, & 6.4 L Power Stroke Specs
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Senior User
Joined: Jan 2010
Posts: 136
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tourque
the towing did go up from 2010 to 2011 on the 350.
the DRW 350 with 3.73's 17,700, up 2500lbs
new 6 speed Fifth (0.86:1) and Sixth (0.67:1).
5 speed: <TABLE class=wikitable><TBODY><TR><TD>4th 1:1</TD><TD> 5th 0.71:1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
But got to figure, pulling that load you will probably be in 5th gear
the DRW 350 with 3.73's 17,700, up 2500lbs
new 6 speed Fifth (0.86:1) and Sixth (0.67:1).
5 speed: <TABLE class=wikitable><TBODY><TR><TD>4th 1:1</TD><TD> 5th 0.71:1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
But got to figure, pulling that load you will probably be in 5th gear
More Turbo
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 729
Likes: 0
If the power is that high, what is the point? So you can wave at the truck you pass going over a hill pulling 17k. Big deal. I believe the power is way over emphasized. Any of you have trouble maintaining the speed limit pulling a heavy load with the truck you already have? I doubt it. When is power too much power? Where is the line between practical and bragging right's.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,897
Likes: 3,615
the towing did go up from 2010 to 2011 on the 350.
the DRW 350 with 3.73's 17,700, up 2500lbs
new 6 speed Fifth (0.86:1) and Sixth (0.67:1).
5 speed: <TABLE class=wikitable><TBODY><TR><TD>4th 1:1</TD><TD>5th 0.71:1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
But got to figure, pulling that load you will probably be in 5th gear
the DRW 350 with 3.73's 17,700, up 2500lbs
new 6 speed Fifth (0.86:1) and Sixth (0.67:1).
5 speed: <TABLE class=wikitable><TBODY><TR><TD>4th 1:1</TD><TD>5th 0.71:1</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>
But got to figure, pulling that load you will probably be in 5th gear
Fleet Owner
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 27,897
Likes: 3,615
Understanding your SelectShift Automatic™ transmission (SST) gearshift lever
This vehicle is equipped with a SelectShift Automatic™ transmission
(SST) gearshift lever. The SST is an automatic transmission with the
ability for the driver to change gears up or down (without a clutch) as
desired.
Use the buttons on the shifter to lock or unlock gears and manually select gears. Press the + button to upshift or the – button to downshift.
With the gearshift lever in D (Drive), press the – button to active SST. The available and selected gears will be indicated on the instrument cluster.
All available gears will be displayed with the current gear indicated.
Press the – button again to lock out gears beginning with the highest
gear. Example: press the – button twice to lock out 6th and 5th gears.
Only the available gears will be displayed and the transmission will
automatically shift between the available gears. Press the + button to
unlock gears.
Pretty cool!
(SST) gearshift lever. The SST is an automatic transmission with the
ability for the driver to change gears up or down (without a clutch) as
desired.
Use the buttons on the shifter to lock or unlock gears and manually select gears. Press the + button to upshift or the – button to downshift.
With the gearshift lever in D (Drive), press the – button to active SST. The available and selected gears will be indicated on the instrument cluster.
All available gears will be displayed with the current gear indicated.
Press the – button again to lock out gears beginning with the highest
gear. Example: press the – button twice to lock out 6th and 5th gears.
Only the available gears will be displayed and the transmission will
automatically shift between the available gears. Press the + button to
unlock gears.
Pretty cool!
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Sep 2000
Posts: 23,174
Likes: 1,678
From: Stephensville WI
Yet again, the PTO port is only on one side, the transfer case side (if they did not swap the transfer case). I would like to see you run a drive shaft from the PTO port through the transfer case. I could be wrong and they have corrected this problem, but that is why I am asking HIM what they have done about it.
As for maintenance, the 6.0 was a cab on design yet was not very maintenance friendly. Just three weeks ago I was at the international dealership getting something for my truck. I saw a mechanic was working on 6.0 in a f450. So I asked him what he thought of the 6.0. Said he absolutely hated the 6.0, "one of the worst vehicles I work on".
Just because its a cab on doesn't mean its maintenance friendly. Maintenance to me is not just changing the oil and air filter.
As for maintenance, the 6.0 was a cab on design yet was not very maintenance friendly. Just three weeks ago I was at the international dealership getting something for my truck. I saw a mechanic was working on 6.0 in a f450. So I asked him what he thought of the 6.0. Said he absolutely hated the 6.0, "one of the worst vehicles I work on".
Just because its a cab on doesn't mean its maintenance friendly. Maintenance to me is not just changing the oil and air filter.