I really want to get a turbo kit for my truck but I don't know which system is best. The Hypermax is a non wastegated system unlike the the ATS Aurora turbo. Hypermax claims that wastegated turbos rob HP. You guys that have turbos, what kind do you have, which ones work better?

 

I like my ATS wastegated turbo.

A wastegated turbo can be more agressive making boost at lower RPM since the wastegate can open at higher RPM preventing overboost and head gasket failure.

So the question boils down to are you running at MAX RPM all the time?
If so a non wastegated turbo will do fine.
However if you are running at a lower RPM and still want boost, a wastegated turbo is the only way to go.

 

The hypermax is actually pretty impressive i got to see one in action it actually seems to make good boost down low it was making about 2 psi at 1500 and passing 5 at 2000 10 at 2800 and 14 at 3300 with stock ip maxed out impressed me and i couldnt beilive how much more power it had then my truck, and hypermax has really good customer service

 

Kinda dissapointed that they would make a generalized statement like that. However I do agree that wastegated and non wastegated have their place. For low end spool its hard to beat a wastegated. For high end heavy hauling, its hard to beat a non wastegated because of less EGTs relative to the amount of boost they make.

I've heard nothing but good things about the customer support for hypermax so far. Price is lower too.

However, I have no first hand experience with either of the new kits. I am running an older 1988 model ATS kit that is non wastegated. It does the job, but I wish it would spool a bit more.

For peak boost, none of the kits are really efficient out of the box much higher than 10 PSI. If you want more, you will have to start modding the turbo kit.

EDIT: dyoung, those are exactly the numbers my old ATS setup can make without smoking. I can push more fuel to get slightl more boost, but coal starts rolling at that point.

 

I know you didn't ask but I'll say it anyway. I have the Banks Sidewinder (wastegated) System and can't be happier. I heard they stopped offering the kit but I found mine at a truck shop in a near by state. Builds quick boost and has been trouble free.
If I was to choose between the other 2 I'd go with HyperMax because of the pulse design and costomer friendly support. One thing I do like about the ATS is the turbo mount pedestal instead of a flex drain tube.
Which ever you choose a turbo really wakes these diesels up, hands down the best mod you can do.

 

So that is good compared to 10 PSI at 1500, 15 before 2000, 20 by 2500?
Those numbers are approximate, since RPM and boost numbers do change rather fast.

Like I said, if the non wastegated turbos made boost like a wastegated turbo does, you would blow the head gaskets at max RPM.

Granted since I have internal engine mods, I have my wastegate set up to run higher boost.
But even if it was set to run 15 PSI max boost, I can see that down at RPM that I can use.
When you are starting out at the bottom of a big hill, if your load is heavy enough you may not see 3300 RPM going up the hill.

Why wait till max RPM to have good boost numbers?

If you compare the numbers above, by 2000 RPM I have the same amount of boost that you have to wait to 3300 RPM to see.
But then again, that boost at lower RPM's does contribute to the broken U joints and stuff like that.


Remember marketing.
If I make a non wastegated turbo could I sell any if I said the wastegated versions offered by the competition were better?
At low RPM and boost, the wastegate is closed, so it makes no difference to the turbo or engine if it is there.
When boost starts approaching the safe max boost for the engine, the wastegate starts to open letting exhaust bypass the turbo which is robbing HP.
But my question here is, if the boost is as high as the engine can stand, is the turbo robbing HP or saving your head gaskets?

Looking at 10 PSI at 1500 RPM versus 2 PSI at 1500 RPM, now which one is robbing HP?

Both turbos are a fine addition to the IDI engine.
Part of the selection process has to take into consideration what RPM you intend to operate your engine at.

And again on the marketing thing.
Ford used ATS to pattern the stock turbo system after.
Considering the total cost of the systems, ATS is one of the most expensive of the bunch.
Banks put out a higher cost package, but it was complete.
ATS turbo was cheaper, but add in the boost gauge, pyrometer and complete exhaust system and they were right there with or slightly higher than Banks.

If you were manufacturing 200,000 trucks with turbos installed on IDI engines why would they pick the most expensive system to use?
Saving 500 per turbo would only put an extra million dollars in the company bank account.

Going a bit farther, consider both Banks and ATS started with non wastegated turbos.
Why did both companies spend the R&D money to come up with and then factory re-tooling money to produce the wastegated turbo if it did not have advantages over the non wastegated versions they already had?

 

I'm not doubting your numbers Dave, but I haven't seen any other accounts of an otherwise stock IDI turbo getting 10 PSI @ only 1500 RPM (gated or not). While I agree it would spool better than a non gated turbo at those RPMs, I feel it might not be fair to use your standard against other IDIs that do not have the same internal mods or other upgrades. Most accounts of 093 setups are for 5 PSI @ 1500 and many don't say if they are rolling coal to reach that. I could probably reach 5 @ 1500 too, but I don't feel like making that much smoke so I gear down and let it spool. Don't know about banks.

My truck will reach 8~9 PSI at 2500 with a worn pump and no fuel system mods (I made it to 14 PSI once loooong ago). It reaches 10 shortly after and basically stays there until I bump the governor. I don't need 3300 to see 10 PSI. Based on Dyno results from others, power can actually be lost if you go to 15 PSI without an intercooler. ATS cautions against overboosting for this reason somewhere in their documentation.

 

Still using your numbers, 5 PSI versus 2 PSI at 1500.

That is 2.5 times the air pressure at that low RPM.

8 or 9 at 2500 versus 10 at 2800, so as we reach the high end of the boost and RPM range, the non waste gated turbo is starting to get close to the waste gated turbo and they are even at the high end of the RPM range.

But how much time do you spend above 2500 RPM?
Even though fuel prices have dropped considerably from what they were, they are again starting to creap up very close to 3.00 a gallon.
So I make a consious effort to keep my top speeds down, RPM's below 2500 and lighter throttle applications to keep the smoke to a minimum or non existant.

Saves dollars at the fuel pump.

Yes, with my fuel system I can get plenty of fuel to the cylinders to make more boost at lower RPM's so my numbers are extreme and I am getting rather dark smoke to get numbers that high when I stand on the throttle.

Lighter throttle foot, at 1500 I see 5 or 6 PSI with no smoke, so the choice is mine when I want the extra power.

As for the intercooler, for now the ram air cooling will have to do.
Does the power drop off above 15 PSI?
I don't think that is exactly how I would word it, but that is basically true.
The extra boost above 15 PSI, actually closer to 18 or 20 since I lower the compression ratio still makes more power.
But not at the rate it did below let's say 19 PSI for conversations sake.

So now you say, then why run it that high.
The temp increase in the intake air starts to limit power increase rate, but the extra flow drops the EGT's.
So I am still getting benefit even though it may not all be more power.
What it is doing is letting me run that power level longer without cooking the pistons.

I am working on a way to run an intercooler, but that is still down the road a way.
From my winter experiments with extremely cold air going in the intake I know there is a lot more power I could be making with an intercooler.
Part of what has me worried is the power ceiling will move higher, and the EGT ceiling may move higher with the power ceiling.

That would be bad news, since the length of time I could use the extra power would decrease.

Lots of variables to take into consideration when you start pushing the envelope.
I built this engine as an experiment to see if I could apply things I have seen in other engines to the IDI.
So far I am pleased, even if I did have a couple setbacks in the beginning like the blown valley pan gasket and exhaust manifold gaskets.

But I still say there is one hard fast rule.
For a stock engine with a boost ceiling of say 15 PSI, the faster you get there and lower the RPM is when you get there, the more useful the power is in normal driving.

 

Thanks for all the input guys. It sounds like for what I do with my truck I should try to find a waste gated turbo. I don't haul heavy loads very often and my tractor with trailer doesn't weigh much more than 6000 lbs. My TDI has a waste gated turbo and it works great. I'm really after some added MPG as well as a little extra power.

 

i prefer non wastegated turbos because of the low egts and the high boost capability and still make really low egts

 

this was in an otherwise stock truck 7.3idi with a stock ip and stock injectors that had 150,000 miles on origanal ip and injectors! this truck would really pin you into the seat from a dead stop suprised the crap out of me i know it would eat a psd up

 

6.9 IDI ATS wastegated turbo acceleration from stop

 

Go with the wastegated if thats what you are after. You won't regret it.

From everything I've read of other IDI owners that install intercoolers, they basically can't reach the danger zone temp anymore. Raw PSI drops because of less thermal buildup in the intake, but power goes up across the range. Even down at 2 psi they say there is a big difference.

Thinking of adding one some day, but its not easy on the 1980 bodystyle and time is against me.

Yeah, Justin has all the best Utube IDI videos.

 

also, keep in mind as it has not even been touched here, but a well built (able to deliver about 5 more PSI than needed) wastegated system will compensate for altitude changes. Non-wastegated you will still see power loss as the altitude increases.

It may not matter to too many of those here, but for those of us out west with the big hills it makes a serious difference when you pass that little sign on the side of the road that says "elevation 7200 feet"

 

Now if I could just find a turbo that I can afford! I want my own You Tube video!!