Ok, I want my cake and to eat it too on this one..



She's getting closer to getting ready to put in the truck. I know I want a turbo as it's the whole reason I pulled it out, cleaned it up and went through it all.

So what's been done: New gaskets/seals all around (victor reinz) and ARP head studs (yup, they'll get the 5 cylce torquing). New valves and I've gotta get some newer 7.3 rockers yet. I'd like to see 15-18 psi out of her.

So I know the big 3 are ATS/Banks/Hypermax. I've read a few accounts of ATS's not making much more than 7 as the non waste gated turbos are boost limited on the hot side. However they seem to be the most common aftermarket option to find. Banks I've heard good things from, not as common to see for sale it seems and of course they're dropping support for the IDI's. Then hypermax is out there but can't find much information on them. Turbo specs on the ATS/Banks/Hypermax seem near impossible to dig up, so I wouldn't even know if the ATS/banks/hypermax non wastegated can deliver or not.

Now here's where I want my cake and eat it too. I could live with a non-WG turbo, but a WG turbo would be ideal. And while the ATS Aurora kits look sweet, if I had to pay 2,500 for a turbo I wouldn't likely ever get one on this truck. And if I'm reading things right, a Holset HX35W would fit an IDI rather well for 15-20 PSI? (can anyone verify this? HX40 seems a tad on the big side to me?) But the HX35W's seem to be going reasonably priced AND wastegated.

OK OK I know the first reply I'll hear is "Stick with a kit, a custom turbo needs custom fabrication" And I agree it'd be easier, however with my tool list involving a lathe, CNC machining center, mig, tig etc the fabrication isn't a show stopper.

So fabrication issues aside.
1. Can an ATS/Banks/Hypermax deliver 15-20 psi? If so which ones and did you have to change anything?

2. Thoughts on mating up an HX35 WG turbo and would it be the correct size or would i need an HX40?

3. Any other input related. (e.g. I plan to copper spray the valley pan with 2 coats and install it with stock bolts, but should I up the torque? Find or make studs? etc)

*edit* There's a '94 turbo engine about 1.5 hours from me in a junkyard. The guy said it's an IDI factory turbo...however he was confused by terms like "turbo pedestal" "up pipes" "down pipe" so I'd really have to drive out there to see it. Worth looking at if it's a stock '94 IDI turbo? (heads will roll if I take off work and drive 1.5 hours to look at a powerstroke turbo!)

Thanks guys!

 

I think one of the limits I'm hitting with my ATS non gated setup is the large turbine housing on the exhaust side. The turbine simply won't spool fast enough until higher engine RPMs. Having said that, it seems to spool comparably against gated turbochargers when they are compared in terms of power/smoke ratio.

My thinking on this would be to start with a hypermax setup and swap the turbocharger for something larger. From what I understand, the hypermax doesn't use any proprietary parts on their turbochargers, so swapping turbine and exhaust sides are made much easier.

Personally, I don't think the aurora is worth the price.

If you were to make a complete turbo package using smooth flowing, pipes and tig weld everything nice and clean, I can't help but wonder what you might gain because that alone should flow much better than the OEM cast manifolds. I would love to see this.

 

Now that my issues are resolved, my Banks Sidewinder makes 10 PSI with ease at around 2K RPM - then the wastegate kicks in.

I'm sure I could adjust the wastegate to deliver 15+ PSI but my engine is still factory - so I don't have the head gaskets or head bolts to handle that pressure.

 

not to steal his thread but is there a intercooler for the banks sidewinder?

 

The only purpose made kit that is offered is by hypermax and there is some modding involved to make it fit from what I understand. Most guys take intercoolers off of a PSDs, or cummins engines (mostly Powerstrokes).

93_F250, what issues did you have? Are you running smoke free at that RPM or is that foot to the floor rolling coal?

 

that engine looks great!!!!

 

I'll second that! It'll be pretty if it doesn't make boost.

 

looking real sharp there!
now that's maintenance and modding at it's finest.

Dave S runs the ATS wastegate @ 20+ boost.

if you didn't mill the pistons to drop the compression ratio some,you better be careful trying for those numbers though.

Daves mean IDI build up:

Now I have a 7 liter engine that has 19.5 to 1 compression that will be running over 20 PSI of boost when it gets broke in.
I had the piston tops milled down to lower the compression ratio from 22.5 to 1 down to 19.5 to 1 so I could run more boost.
I also used head studs to address the head bolt stretching problems.


https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/5...you-think.html

 

Yeah I'm planning to run around 15-18 psi limit. Likely closer to the 15 as I think that will deliver more than enough for my needs lol. I've been looking at trying to find a turbo capable of 20psi though so I can keep a good margin of safety from the choke line of the turbo maps. I haven't been able to dig up any specifics on stock/ats/banks/hypermax turbos so I haven't seen any compressor maps for any of them.

I decided against milling the pistons. I'll keep the easier starting and earlier torque for now and keep the boost lower as per Dave S's input. Perhaps on full build motor I'll consider milling them later down the road. For now it's a stock bottom end.

Thanks for the kind words. She's looking nice and I'll have to do some body work on my truck to make the truck worthy of it now lol. It started out as a "I'll just change the head gaskets, add studs and put it in" to "OMG this thing is dirty" Taking it apart the previous owner LOVED silicone (I hate when people say a gasket is too pricey when they can use silicone instead). Leaked everywhere. So all new gaskets and seals all around, cleaned it up so it was descent to work on so I figured I might as well paint it. Then looked at the valves and said "ugh, those exhaust valves suck" so new valves on the heads and I've gotta order up a set of rockers to go on the new valves because a few rockers don't look so hot. But at least I should be set for a while then!

In regards to the Holset HX35W: (the red dots aren't from me)


And an HX40W:


I'm thinking HX40 is a tad on the big side. HX35W would start to choke at around 18 psi or so but I plan to stay under that. I'm by no means an expert of turbo maps so hoping for some input

Thanks!

 

ATS 093 waste gated turbo, 3" down pipe, 2 feet of 3" exhaust before it splits to twin 3" stacks.

Header wrap on everything I could get it around before the turbo to keep the exhaust hot.
Lots of fuel

Makes enough boost to blow the valley pan if you adjust the waste gate and keep your foot in it.

20 PSI is easy.
70 MPH I am usually deeing 10 to 20 PSI, 10 downhill and 20 uphill.

 

Sorry to jack - of all things I had bad throttle cable clamp


I'm Smoke free thru a quick easy roll - (I turned the fuel down a bit)
She makes 10 PSI pretty quick. She's accelerating to 90MPH fast enough for a big truck.

Back on topic - that is a sweet clean looking engine... One thing I noticed about my Turbo is the amount of heat transfer into the cabin.. Not to bad - but noticable.

 

So how does the ATS turbo models work? 088.. 093.. year they were released?

I guess I should run down and check out that turbo at the junkyard. Could be an aftermarket and they don't realize it. I'm usually not so lucky though hah. But at least it would give me some parts to start with if anything maybe.

What are the ATS turbos based off of? Or do they run custom center section and everything?

 

All ATS and hypermax turbo kits are based on the garrett T04 series turbocharger. The exception is the 093 and later aurora that use the T3/4 hybrid (wastegated with a smaller turbine housing for better spooling).

Earlier banks turbochargers are also based on the T4 series, with later ones switching to the more expensive mitsubishi series. Parts are harder to get, but from what I understand, mutsubishi does make efficient turbos.

Yes, the number denotes the year of the model. ATS has released 4 versions so far; 085, 088, 093 and the aurora is basically the same as the 093 with what is said to be a better turbocharger.

The 088 I have as I found out is among the worst for modding because it uses a proprietary turbine housing that cannot be swapped out without some modding to replace the lost inlet and outlets for the external plumbing which are cast as one piece with the turbine housing. The compressor wheel and housing can still be swapped and I did that for some improvement but not very much. The stupid thing has too large a turbine on it and seems to always be spooling just under what is ideal for any given situation. This was the cheap way to prevent the turbo from passing 10 PSI very easily with otherwise stock IDI engines. Other then that, I do like the 088 because its simple to install and remove, but its just not upgrade friendly.

While I don't like the 093/aurora due to how they cover up the top of the engine but at least both sides of the center rotating housing can be swapped without too much trouble.

What I like about the hypermax is the simplicity (cheaper too) and how it still tucks the turbo up against the firewall to keep the top of the engine clear. It also uses standard garrett parts so again, upgrades are easier with this setup. If a wastegate is still desired, an external one can be installed.

 

note that any of the aftermarket turbo's crowd up an engine bay and complicate maintenace

 

Any clue what the T3/T4 093/Aurora turbo specs are?