I can't cite any definitive examples, but the catholic religion was put through revision's several times by several different kings. Who knows? King James I hear would have been clinically insane in today's society, yet somehow his name's on the New Testament.

 

>Ok, this may lead the discussion off on a tangent but I
>don't know if the moderators will go for 3 God discussions
>at one time.
>
>What does it mean to not take the Lord's name in vain?
>Growing up I always though it meant that 2 word prhase your
>parents told you never to say. But I could never think of
>any other instance. I mean it seems pretty important if it
>has it's own commandment. How could 1 phrase be that bad?
>So what else could it (the commandment) mean?

My (and I emphasize MY) interpretation of that particular commandment would mean ANYTIME you used the words "Jesus","Christ", "Jesus Christ", "God"- as in "Oh my God!", and of course anytime you link "God" and "damn" together.

No hate mail or "slamming" please. Just answering a question. My theological views were stated to the best of my ability in the other thread.

<heads back to the sideline>

Chuck

 

Say Yes when you mean Yes and No when you mean No.

With that being said. When you hit your hand with a hammer and say gosh darnmit. You say it almost without thinking. That, then is not a willful choice to disobey God. Occasionally, I am able to catch myself when I hit my hand and say something else. It is the deliberate choice of the word to offend God, that it becomes a great sin.

What is interesting about man is that when he is injured, he usually calls out to his maker in one fashion or another. Which made Christ rather special. When he was nailed to the cross, the nails through his wrist hit one of the largest nerves in the body. The pain is described as truly unbelievable in intensity. The reaction of most who were crucifixed was to swear at great length due to the pain. According to Scripture - he didn't utter a word.

 

I agree with chuck on this one, sounds pretty close to my deffinition too.

 

>
>My (and I emphasize MY) interpretation of that particular
>commandment would mean ANYTIME you used the words
>"Jesus","Christ", "Jesus Christ", "God"- as in "Oh my God!",

EDIT: "--in a negative manner" ie. not talking about them as in reference,discussion or prayer. My fingers quit typing while my mind was still thinking. Duh! My reply had everyone including myself breaking MY interpretation. lol

>and of course anytime you link "God" and "damn" together.

Dan said it better anyhow. See above.
>
>No hate mail or "slamming" please. Just answering a
>question. My theological views were stated to the best of my
>ability in the other thread.
>
><heads back to the sideline>

Shoulda stayed on the sidelines Chuck...
>
>Chuck
>
>
>

 

As a Nazarene Jew, (messianic Jew, hebrew Christian, whatever ya want to call me ) I find a great deal of Roman Catholisism scripturally unsound. From where does the pope think he gets his authority ? The pope cannot be a inheriter of the position from Simon Peter. Peter was appointed to preach to other Jews, Paul went to Rome. What is the reason for the celibacy rule ? It seems to be causing great problems for the church, and I know of no scriptual basis for the rule. Simon Peter was married, so the pope can't claim to be in his tradition. Why so many carved idols in Catholic churches ? Christ gave his disciples no instruction about changing the day of the sabbath, so why did the Roman church do it ? Why would one pray to Mary, asking her to pray on your behalf ? Shes dead and in the ground, where does the idea that dead believers can intercede for you come from ? Where does the idea of celebrating "Christmas" come from, and what about "Easter" ? What makes priests think they have the ability to forgive sins ? How old are some of you ? When I was younger, some 25 yrs ago, catholics were told by their priest NOT to read the scripture, the priests said that they were afraid regular folks couldn't understand it, and the priests were needed to tell you what it meant. I am continually surprized that more folks don't defect from the catholic church. I think the catholic church has many sincere believers in it, but that the leadership is hopelessly corrupt. Can some of you Catholics explain to me why your church does what it does ? DF

 

> As a Nazarene Jew, (messianic Jew, hebrew Christian,
>whatever ya want to call me ) I find a great deal of Roman
>Catholisism scripturally unsound.

Have you ever attended a Catholic mass? Most protestants who do are stunned. And not because it's a heathen ritual.

From where does the pope
>think he gets his authority ? The pope cannot be a inheriter
>of the position from Simon Peter. Peter was appointed to
>preach to other Jews, Paul went to Rome.

Where do you get your authority?

What is the reason
>for the celibacy rule ?

This is a weak issue. Most priest cannot imagine being married to a woman. They are married to the church. Are those who are not married more devout to the church and it's mission? I am not going to say that but you might ask those who are married to the church. Christ never married.

It seems to be causing great
>problems for the church, and I know of no scriptual basis
>for the rule. Simon Peter was married, so the pope can't
>claim to be in his tradition. It is tradition for one and the problems are generated from those outside the church who cannot understand why a man would remain celibate to the Lord.

A lot of what makes the Catholic Church, Catholic is Tradition.

Why so many carved idols in
>Catholic churches ?

What idols are you implying?

Christ gave his disciples no
>instruction about changing the day of the sabbath, so why
>did the Roman church do it ? Why would one pray to Mary,
>asking her to pray on your behalf ?

Because she was Christ's mother. See the first miracle that Christ peformed. It was because they went through her first.

Shes dead and in the
>ground,

Catholics, do not believe this. She was assumed body and soul into heaven.

where does the idea that dead believers can
>intercede for you come from ? Where does the idea of
>celebrating "Christmas" come from, and what about "Easter" ?
>What makes priests think they have the ability to forgive
>sins ? How old are some of you ? When I was younger, some 25
>yrs ago, catholics were told by their priest NOT to read the
>scripture, the priests said that they were afraid regular
>folks couldn't understand it, and the priests were needed to
>tell you what it meant.

Not today.

I am continually surprized that more
>folks don't defect from the catholic church. I think the
>catholic church has many sincere believers in it, but that
>the leadership is hopelessly corrupt. Can some of you
>Catholics explain to me why your church does what it does ?
> DF

Yea, I could provide you with more explanations as to what we believe and why we believe it, but I don't think it would make any difference in your opinion. You presume to know a great deal Dino but you have not dug deep to find the answers to which you ask. My posting on this thread is not going to make you say "Ahhh, that's why they do it!"

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-Nov-02 AT 01:39&nbsp;AM (EST)]Alright DF,

From where does the pope think he gets his authority ? The pope cannot be a inheriter of the position from Simon Peter. Peter was appointed to preach to other Jews, Paul went to Rome.

Jesus told Peter that he was the rock and upon this rock I shall build my church, that is where it comes from. I dind't say you had to agree with it, just that thats where it comes from.

What is the reason for the celibacy rule

As someone else has already stated out the priests are married to the church. It allows them to give their whole selves to the church and not be distracted by family and such. When a priest is needed he can not afford to tell the person he is sorry because he has to stay at home with his sick kids becuase his wife is out of town.

It seems to be causing great problems for the church, and I know of no scriptual basis for the rule.

Its not causeing as big of a problem as you think, remember the media likes to exaggerate everything and the catholic church is not the only one with bad priests, I know of 3 pastors in other religions in my area alone who have been convicted of the same thing, I found it barriewd 3 pages into the local newspaper, where as the one that happened in the catholic church was right on the front page. Go figure.

Why so many carved idols in Catholic churches ?
Read up on the idolistic(sp) controversy. They are not idols that we worship, in fact they are not idols, just mere statues.

Why would one pray to Mary, asking her to pray on your behalf ? Shes dead and in the ground, where does the idea that dead believers can intercede for you come from ? This makes sense to me, if someons is in heaven, then they are cleary closer to God then myself.

What makes priests think they have the ability to forgive sins ?
Absoving a person from thier sins and forgiving them of their sins are 2 differnt things. We know that only God can truly forgive you of your sins.

How old are some of you ? When I was younger, some 25 yrs ago, catholics were told by their priest NOT to read the scripture, the priests said that they were afraid regular folks couldn't understand it, and the priests were needed to tell you what it meant

Since I am only 20 I could not answer this one on my own, however I did aske several people including my parents and my grandparents, not all of whom are catholic and they all said they had never heard such a thing and that when they were young you were always encouraged to read the bible.

. I am continually surprized that more folks don't defect from the catholic church.

Actually the Catholic church is the fastest growing christian religion. I got this information from my geography class the other day and if you would like to know the reference I will gladly get it for you.

I think the catholic church has many sincere believers in it, but that the leadership is hopelessly corrupt.

I think i have to agree that some of the leadership within the church HAS in the past been corrupt, however I don't think that you can say this of the current leadership, espescailly the Pope.

Can some of you Catholics explain to me why your church does what it does ? DF
I will be more then happy to explain any other questions as long as you are willing to accept my answers with an open mind. That does not mean you have to agree with them.

P.S. Sorry for all the typos, not the best typist in the world here, I would also like to say Thank you to DF for asking me these questions that have really made me think about my religion and because of that I am even stronger in it. I hope that I do not come off as too defensive or as trying to push my views onto you, I just hope that you can see things from my side and why I may believe the way I do. Thanks

 

<snip>
>>What does it mean to not take the Lord's name in vain?
>>Growing up I always though it meant that 2 word prhase your
>>parents told you never to say.
<snip>

>My (and I emphasize MY) interpretation of that particular
>commandment would mean ANYTIME you used the words
>"Jesus","Christ", "Jesus Christ", "God"- as in "Oh my God!",
>and of course anytime you link "God" and "damn" together.
>
>No hate mail or "slamming" please. Just answering a
>question. My theological views were stated to the best of my
>ability in the other thread.
>
><heads back to the sideline>
>
>Chuck
>
>
>

That's my point. Does it just mean using the word god while swearing or something else? Remember Jesus didn't exist when this commandment was handed down so that couldn't have been it.

I've been thinking about it and here's what I've come up with. If someone was to swear using my name (tom-dammit) I probably wouldn't like it but what the hey. If someone used my name to represent something false as true I would probably go to war over it. (Tom has said this is the geatest money making scheme in the world. Just give me all your bank account numbers and I'll sign you up now.)

Now applying this to the above problem (I know it's very imperfect but think about this). I'm sure God is not pleased when his name is used as stated above. But what about when his name is used to misrepresent something. Isn't this a MUCH more serious matter.
Examples:
1. A few years ago a prominent evangelist stated "God appeard to me and told me to raise (how ever many millions of $) or he is going to call me home. So please fill out your checks now". When the general reaction was "So go home, you always tell us it's a better place anyway." and the donations didn't make the amount he stated he came out and said he got a reprieve.

2. "Allah (God) has said to drive out the infidel so go kill them in his name and you will have rewards in heaven." BTW who really thinks having 73 women to tell you what to do is a reward?

3. "God has created us superior to them so ..." (whatever discrimination placed here).

My point is wouldn't it be much worse to use the name of God (or Jesus) as an endorsement to sin? This would expand the offense from just potty mouth to what could amount to serious crimes that could hurt people. Wouldn't an all loving God get really peeved if his name was used to spread and endorse hate, murder, and violence?

Responses?

 

Honestly, I think they are all serious matters. It is so easy to allow compromises in our lives when it's some thing we don't want to let go of. I was taught like Chuck, not to use any of them. And perhaps what we need to remember is there are some things God deals with on individual basis. There are things that I may not be comfortable doing, but He hasn't dealt with someone else about. It depends on where you are in your walk with Him. For whom much is given much is required. As for the examples you used....I believe He cries when people do that. Yes vengence is His, but I think there are times the people He created for His glory really make Him sad, to give Him human emotions for a moment.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 02-Nov-02 AT 11:27&nbsp;PM (EST)]> As a Nazarene Jew, (messianic Jew, hebrew Christian,
>whatever ya want to call me ) I find a great deal of Roman
>Catholisism scripturally unsound. From where does the pope
>think he gets his authority ? The pope cannot be a inheriter
>of the position from Simon Peter. Peter was appointed to
>preach to other Jews, Paul went to Rome. What is the reason
>for the celibacy rule ? It seems to be causing great
>problems for the church, and I know of no scriptual basis
>for the rule. Simon Peter was married, so the pope can't
>claim to be in his tradition. Why so many carved idols in
>Catholic churches ? You do not know the definition of idol. We do not worship them. They are there for art and to stimilate the imagination. Thats why Catholic Churches are know as beautiful. Christ gave his disciples no
>instruction about changing the day of the sabbath, so why
>did the Roman church do it ? We still celebrate the Sabbath changing the day does not take any meaning away from it. This question is self explanantory think about how the work week goes. Why would one pray to Mary,
>asking her to pray on your behalf ? Shes dead and in the
>ground, where does the idea that dead believers can
>intercede for you come from ? Thats a question a 4 year old in Sunday school would ask. I hope you agree with me that she is the mother of God, according to the scripture she had no sin. In the scripture she prayed constantly. Did you have a mom? i bet you had some meaningful talks with her. Im sure you have asked her to help you out with some of your problems. We are just asking Mary to help us out, whats wrong with that? Where does the idea of
>celebrating "Christmas" come from, and what about "Easter" ? Are you an idiot? All Christians celebrate those holidays, not just Catholics, you are NOT a Christian. Christmas celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ. Easter celebrates the resurrection.
>What makes priests think they have the ability to forgive
>sins ? The priests themselves do not forgive the sins God does. The priests are there to council you, don't you feel better when you tell someone your sins? It takes alot of your conscience, the priest is a link to God, you can always ask God to forgive you but doesn't it mean more when you go the extra step and spill it? How old are some of you ? When I was younger, some 25
>yrs ago, catholics were told by their priest NOT to read the
>scripture, the priests said that they were afraid regular
>folks couldn't understand it, and the priests were needed to
>tell you what it meant. wow you just answered your own questions, people like YOU are what the Catholic Church talks about, you take the wrongful meaning and than try to spread it in your idiotic opinions. I am continually surprized that more
>folks don't defect from the catholic church.Its hard to believe you even believe in God. I think the
>catholic church has many sincere believers in it, but that
>the leadership is hopelessly corrupt. Can some of you
>Catholics explain to me why your church does what it does ?
> DF
You have weak morals and faith. I could answer all of your questions but that would take a couple days. Why don't you go to a Catholic Mass and see for yourself? Do you go to any kind of Church? Do you have any respect for tradition? You need to take some time and study the religion before you say things, all you are looking for is concrete evidence. I'm guessing you did not grow up with any kind of religious training because you seem to know very little about Christianity. I don't know much but enough to understand some of these things, I hope you find all the answers your looking for, no one can convice you except yourself. To me, religion is a big deal. In my opinion other faiths broke off the Catholic faith simply because it was too serious. They all carry the same goal though, and that is to inspire people like you to put meaning into your life. Your post assured me that you know nothing about being a christian/jew or whatever. Even people of the Jewish faith understand these questions you posted, they respect them too. You just think its a hunk of crap. Im going to stop now because i am getting sick. :-X23

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 03-Nov-02 AT 00:26&nbsp;AM (EST)]rbrendel: Your zeal is to be commended but your tack is not conducive to the cause/forum. Dino has been round awhile and ask ?'s like this every now and then. He may tick you off but he is not a problem child. Cool off or you may risk getting kicked out. You had a good response, just moderate it so that it is not personnal in nature. i.e he has his opinion, and that is all that it is.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 03-Nov-02 AT 02:29&nbsp;AM (EST)]i just read it over and i do agree i blew up. the use of "idiot" sounded bad. i took his post as an attack to me and my religion instead of just a couple of questions so that he could understand why we did things.i do see hes been here a long time i do have respect for all his stars and i have no place to tell him hes wrong. i apologize i took it all the wrong way. im sure dinosaur fan is a very good person and is trying to discover new things. for me, i need to think about things before i talk, my mouth always gets me in trouble. i get offended easily especially on religious or political matters and im working on it. the way i posted my response was uncalled for and hypocritcal. how can i call myself a good christian when i call somebody and idiot? ...wow makes me look at myself as a person. but anyways i hope dinosaurfan excepts my apology and anybody else who reads my post.

 

>i just read it over and i do agree i blew up. the use of
>"idiot" sounded bad. i took his post as an attack to me and
>my religion instead of just a couple of questions so that he
>could understand why we did things.i do see hes been here a
>long time i do have respect for all his stars and i have no
>place to tell him hes wrong. i apologize i took it all the
>wrong way. im sure dinosaur fan is a very good person and is
>trying to discover new things. for me, i need to think about
>things before i talk, my mouth always gets me in trouble. i
>get offended easily especially on religious or political
>matters and im working on it. the way i posted my response
>was uncalled for and hypocritcal. how can i call myself a
>good christian when i call somebody and idiot? ...wow makes
>me look at myself as a person. but anyways i hope
>dinosaurfan excepts my apology and anybody else who reads my
>post.


It is nice to see an apology......very rare these days. You are to be commended for your humility.....shows the Holy Spirit is working within you.

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 03-Nov-02 AT 03:49&nbsp;PM (EST)]Dinosaurfan, i was told this was a very good book to help people understand catholicism, the title of the book is not meant to be an attack on you, it just so happened that this was the best book. To show you that im not just being an ahole i will pay for the book and shipping to your home.

http://search.barnesandnoble.com/booksearch/isbnInquiry.asp?userid=1AZYO25DBQ&sourceid=0039000 2876147072674&bfdate=11%2D03%2D2002+15%3A50%3A13&i sbn=0028636392

I would feel really good if you would accept my offer, this book will answer all these questions and some that i don't even know about.