Rebuild an inline-6 instead of a V8?!
#16
08-26-2009, 07:37 PM
Posting Guru
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xgYd2u79NU
This is the video F250 restorer was referring to, it's my nephew's rig. It does make a great daily driver, and small hauler, even with a 4bbl. Power-wise, it's fine and pretty peppy....for what it is. Lots of people do a double take when I drive with the hood off. As already said, it's easy to get 200-250hp, but after that it's out of its league. A turbo would probably be the best solution for the anemic flowing head. I drive mine 5-7 days a week too.
This is the video F250 restorer was referring to, it's my nephew's rig. It does make a great daily driver, and small hauler, even with a 4bbl. Power-wise, it's fine and pretty peppy....for what it is. Lots of people do a double take when I drive with the hood off. As already said, it's easy to get 200-250hp, but after that it's out of its league. A turbo would probably be the best solution for the anemic flowing head. I drive mine 5-7 days a week too.
#17
08-26-2009, 09:58 PM
Posting Guru
-Comparing a diesel straight six to a gasser is idiotic to say the least.
-you do also realize how common large v8 diesels are too? or has your love for six cylinders really blinded you that much?
Not to be too far off topic, but someone has put a 14.0L cummins in an f150 before, but it was a rear engine setup in the bed.
...but what do i know, i just work on these trucks for a living.
#18
08-26-2009, 10:22 PM
Lead Driver
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2xgYd2u79NU
This is the video F250 restorer was referring to, it's my nephew's rig. It does make a great daily driver, and small hauler, even with a 4bbl. Power-wise, it's fine and pretty peppy....for what it is. Lots of people do a double take when I drive with the hood off. As already said, it's easy to get 200-250hp, but after that it's out of its league. A turbo would probably be the best solution for the anemic flowing head. I drive mine 5-7 days a week too.
This is the video F250 restorer was referring to, it's my nephew's rig. It does make a great daily driver, and small hauler, even with a 4bbl. Power-wise, it's fine and pretty peppy....for what it is. Lots of people do a double take when I drive with the hood off. As already said, it's easy to get 200-250hp, but after that it's out of its league. A turbo would probably be the best solution for the anemic flowing head. I drive mine 5-7 days a week too.
Also, was it difficult dialing in the carb, and does he like the Edlebrock?
thanks.
#19
08-26-2009, 10:33 PM
Elder User
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Brumley, MO
Posts: 647
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#21
08-27-2009, 12:41 AM
Postmaster
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: raymond alberta
Posts: 2,995
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
this is a silly argument, but you asked for it. Best for your application? sure. You like it? absolutely.
There are plenty "simple, easy to work on" V8s. I can have the headers off of my 5.0 in like 30 minutes. Try that with your intake and smog crap all in your way.
There are also plenty of tough V8s. At least on this one you provided some factual info like 7 main bearings vs 5, but it doesnt help that the rotating assembly is heavy and not as strong as many V8s'. The Chevy LS7 has a 4.125 inch bore and a 4 inch stroke and puts out 470 lb-ft of torque and repeatedly ran to 8000 rpm in its prototype phase. Stock the redline is 7k. Jeremy Clarkson took a Z06 from a standstill to 170 mph using fifth gear and fifth gear only. Low end torque, anyone? There are plenty of guys that would bust a nut if their twin turbo, worked over 300 put out even 370 lb-ft, let alone 470. There would be non-stop smack talk on V8s. And Chevys got it all beat. STOCK. Now go ahead and throw the old vs. new argument at me if you wish, Im just using this as a point of referance. Dont even get me started on the 5.4 4v fords. Oh, mod motors, by the way, are completely internally balanced, and do not need an inbalanced flywheel like the 5.0s or 5.8s. Sound familiar?
make their torque at half the rpms? Translation: most V8s can hold their torque twice as long as the 300. Getting the load moving is great. Keeping it moving is better.
different i will give you. Its one of the reasons i like the 300. I find myself wondering if you all think im some ******* coming in here and raining on your parade, so i'd like to remind you that i do own one...
300s "SMOKING" V8s....lets see...some guy you know pumped a bunch of money into a 300 and beat a few V8s, therefor 300s are "better" than any V8. Ever. Right...lets pass the entire design and history of V8s off as inferior because someone with your favorite engine beat some dude with a V8 in a dragrace. the logic here is astounding. Dude, there are civics running 6's. You can build any motor to do anything you want, if youre stubborn enough to pump the money into it to make it do things its not designed to do.
All i want you to do is realize that theres always a bigger fish. We could go til we're blue in the face and not come to any sort of agreement. You like 300s because you like 300s. Its as simple as that, and im not here to try and talk you out of that. Just dont tell me that your #1 piston is actually jesus' left nut.
There are plenty "simple, easy to work on" V8s. I can have the headers off of my 5.0 in like 30 minutes. Try that with your intake and smog crap all in your way.
There are also plenty of tough V8s. At least on this one you provided some factual info like 7 main bearings vs 5, but it doesnt help that the rotating assembly is heavy and not as strong as many V8s'. The Chevy LS7 has a 4.125 inch bore and a 4 inch stroke and puts out 470 lb-ft of torque and repeatedly ran to 8000 rpm in its prototype phase. Stock the redline is 7k. Jeremy Clarkson took a Z06 from a standstill to 170 mph using fifth gear and fifth gear only. Low end torque, anyone? There are plenty of guys that would bust a nut if their twin turbo, worked over 300 put out even 370 lb-ft, let alone 470. There would be non-stop smack talk on V8s. And Chevys got it all beat. STOCK. Now go ahead and throw the old vs. new argument at me if you wish, Im just using this as a point of referance. Dont even get me started on the 5.4 4v fords. Oh, mod motors, by the way, are completely internally balanced, and do not need an inbalanced flywheel like the 5.0s or 5.8s. Sound familiar?
make their torque at half the rpms? Translation: most V8s can hold their torque twice as long as the 300. Getting the load moving is great. Keeping it moving is better.
different i will give you. Its one of the reasons i like the 300. I find myself wondering if you all think im some ******* coming in here and raining on your parade, so i'd like to remind you that i do own one...
300s "SMOKING" V8s....lets see...some guy you know pumped a bunch of money into a 300 and beat a few V8s, therefor 300s are "better" than any V8. Ever. Right...lets pass the entire design and history of V8s off as inferior because someone with your favorite engine beat some dude with a V8 in a dragrace. the logic here is astounding. Dude, there are civics running 6's. You can build any motor to do anything you want, if youre stubborn enough to pump the money into it to make it do things its not designed to do.
All i want you to do is realize that theres always a bigger fish. We could go til we're blue in the face and not come to any sort of agreement. You like 300s because you like 300s. Its as simple as that, and im not here to try and talk you out of that. Just dont tell me that your #1 piston is actually jesus' left nut.
WOOOO BOY hold your horses...not once did i ever say v8s suck and I6s are gods gift to the world, i simply stated IMO (in MY opinion) the 300 is best for reasons that have been proven and previously stated, they can be built to do anything or a combination, you see very few v8s that are as economical as the I6s are, you see few v8s that ever outlast an I6...i have an I6 and a 302 and posibly soon another 302, i still prefer my 300, more miles than both the 302s put together and it would still pull them to pieces, the 302s go faster still and are still tough but not as tough, all ford engines are good LOL
you CAN build an I6 to the nuts to the point where it smokes built v8s ive seen it, alot to do with the driver in racing man, the driver makes the engine the engine does not make the driver, if you know how to handle a six they will perform like nothing else but of course for the same amount of money for both you could build a v8 to no end and then it will more than likely smoke the 6
six bangers are stubborn as all hell tougher and longer lasting, take more **** and abuse, and can be built for more applications than v8s can...and i agree there are some pretty open v8s but a 6 is still easier to work on, 2 less of everything, cheaper to rebuild and bore over
im not trying to start anything with you man i think the whole v8 vs. I6 arguement is stupid like you said both have their ups and downs, i simply stated my opinion and why, i did not need to get hung for it
end of rant haha
EDIT:: v8s still sound better LOL
#22
08-27-2009, 01:00 AM
Postmaster
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: raymond alberta
Posts: 2,995
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Awesome, lets compare a 14.0L cummins to a 4.9L straight six, thats a fair comparison
-Comparing a diesel straight six to a gasser is idiotic to say the least.
-you do also realize how common large v8 diesels are too? or has your love for six cylinders really blinded you that much?
Not to be too far off topic, but someone has put a 14.0L cummins in an f150 before, but it was a rear engine setup in the bed.
...but what do i know, i just work on these trucks for a living.
-Comparing a diesel straight six to a gasser is idiotic to say the least.
-you do also realize how common large v8 diesels are too? or has your love for six cylinders really blinded you that much?
Not to be too far off topic, but someone has put a 14.0L cummins in an f150 before, but it was a rear engine setup in the bed.
...but what do i know, i just work on these trucks for a living.
i work on these rigs for a living too so dont talk like you are the only one man. out of hundreds of trucks that have come through the shop in the last year i have seen ONE highway truck with a v8 in it, a 1984 peterbilt 359, every single truck other than that ONE has been an inline 6...see a pattern here? the number of I6s in big rigs would not tower over the number of v8s if there was no reason for it...that was just a side note not me trying to say gasser 6s are better
and again I ALSO OWN A V8 because i prefer the inline 6 over the v8 does not make me a retard, it does not mean i am blinded, i know the facts, i still choose I6, do i bash you everytime you bring up the positives of the v8 over the 6 no i do not, to each his own i also just said that this whole arguement is stupid so why the hell would i try and win it?
you guys need to realize that i was not trying to put the I6 in the spot light and turn this guy over, he will choose what he wants and why, i stated my opinion and why it is my opinion, i also provided some fact, and some other info
#23
08-27-2009, 02:35 AM
Posting Guru
http://www.dieselpowermag.com/featur...sel/index.html
14.0L, like i said.
The I6 is great for its given purpose and intent of usage, a torquey little reliable truck motor that'll bring your kids to the mall, go do some light offroading, tow a trailer and cruise down the highway with respectible mpgs. I like it for what it is, and would honestly pick it over a 302 in stock form, but if i was going for performance an I6 would not be on my list.
The 300 six has a low rpm range because of the weight of the rotating mass, the crappy cylinder head flow, the camshaft design and horrendous emissions equipment, plus the fact that the rotating assembly isnt made for sustained rpms in its stock form. It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it's a inline 6 configuration. You even stating that diesel inline 6 engines are what are popular amongst trucking companies is completely irrelevant.
Are you familiar with the nissan skyline inline 6? built right i see them revved up to 10k rpms. Ill repeat again, the inline 6 configuration of the motor has NOTHING to do with it's rpm range, which i see most people get confused with and compare it to a diesel. Im not saying this is what you are doing, but you know as well as i do that people say it. The only similar thing to a diesel is that it cant rev, well **** most smogged out crapola headed motors cant rev either, the I6 is no different.
also...the reason the straight six is so torquey is the 4" stroke, look at most 4" stroke motors, they make hella lot of low end torque, the 408 stroked windsor is one example. Well hell, the 460 only has a 3.85" stroke, and you've got more stroke than that...of course its going to make killer low end tq.
Im not trying to bash you or go against your opinion, just trying to point out facts that people commonly get mixed up about the I6. I view this as quality tech discussion, isnt that what this site is all about?
14.0L, like i said.
The I6 is great for its given purpose and intent of usage, a torquey little reliable truck motor that'll bring your kids to the mall, go do some light offroading, tow a trailer and cruise down the highway with respectible mpgs. I like it for what it is, and would honestly pick it over a 302 in stock form, but if i was going for performance an I6 would not be on my list.
The 300 six has a low rpm range because of the weight of the rotating mass, the crappy cylinder head flow, the camshaft design and horrendous emissions equipment, plus the fact that the rotating assembly isnt made for sustained rpms in its stock form. It doesn't have anything to do with the fact that it's a inline 6 configuration. You even stating that diesel inline 6 engines are what are popular amongst trucking companies is completely irrelevant.
Are you familiar with the nissan skyline inline 6? built right i see them revved up to 10k rpms. Ill repeat again, the inline 6 configuration of the motor has NOTHING to do with it's rpm range, which i see most people get confused with and compare it to a diesel. Im not saying this is what you are doing, but you know as well as i do that people say it. The only similar thing to a diesel is that it cant rev, well **** most smogged out crapola headed motors cant rev either, the I6 is no different.
also...the reason the straight six is so torquey is the 4" stroke, look at most 4" stroke motors, they make hella lot of low end torque, the 408 stroked windsor is one example. Well hell, the 460 only has a 3.85" stroke, and you've got more stroke than that...of course its going to make killer low end tq.
Im not trying to bash you or go against your opinion, just trying to point out facts that people commonly get mixed up about the I6. I view this as quality tech discussion, isnt that what this site is all about?
Last edited by 70torino429; 08-27-2009 at 02:39 AM. Reason: forgot to add one part
#24
08-27-2009, 08:00 AM
Posting Guru
We both like our Edelbrocks. He tells me he gets almost 17mpg with his, but that was just one tankful avg. His runs a little too rich on the power mode, but otherwise it's fine. Took a few tries to get the right metering rods and jets. Mine is still stock Edelbrock parts.
#25
08-27-2009, 02:30 PM
My personal opinion is go V8 (351 comes to mind). If you want to be different, go for the I6. Just keep in mind you're going to spend a good lick just to pull 250 horse out of the 300.
The 300 is a good motor if you don't care about performance. If you do care about performance at all, I suggest looking for another motor. The 300 is more like a tractor engine. It has a 4'' stroke. It's made to tow and haul. Not tach-up and haul booty.
Just my two cents. I love to see I6's in hot rods. I think it's cool. I think it's different. I think more people should use I6 motors for their projects. Just keep in mind it's cheaper to build a V8 for much more power.
300 I6 Stock
145 @ 3,400
265 @ 2,000
The 300 is a good motor if you don't care about performance. If you do care about performance at all, I suggest looking for another motor. The 300 is more like a tractor engine. It has a 4'' stroke. It's made to tow and haul. Not tach-up and haul booty.
Just my two cents. I love to see I6's in hot rods. I think it's cool. I think it's different. I think more people should use I6 motors for their projects. Just keep in mind it's cheaper to build a V8 for much more power.
300 I6 Stock
145 @ 3,400
265 @ 2,000
#26
08-27-2009, 06:56 PM
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: SE Iowa
Posts: 49
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
#27
08-27-2009, 07:39 PM
#28
08-27-2009, 07:56 PM
Posting Guru
In reality tho, for something i want to drive everyday id take the 6 cylinder 300 over most truck motors, backed up with a 5 speed, you cant really beat that combo imo. for reliability, somewhat enjoyable, and decent gas mileage.
#30
08-27-2009, 10:54 PM
Postmaster
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: raymond alberta
Posts: 2,995
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
yeah the 351 is a combination of 302 and 300 is the way i see it, gobs of low end torque to get you moving yet lots of high rpm ponies to keep you moving, if i were to build a v8 the 351 would be the one
id still rather build an I6 LOL, like i said look at cliffords 600hp 300 I6, probably a 3 million dollar engine but you cant say you wouldnt love to smoke v8s with an inline 6 just to see the look on their faces once they catch up at the finish line
my plans for my 300...build it (not to the nuts but not mild either), something that can go fast and pull hard, keep the 35s moving in the mud, the 300 already does that just fine, all without breaking the sound barrier at 6000 rpm, something still very reliable but a respectable performer, i have been gathering ideas for some time now and it looks promising, build wont take place for at least another year yet though
and the stock head is crap! i agree, even a mild port/polish will wake a 300 and make it much less sluggish, same with exhaust, intake isnt really that bad
id still rather build an I6 LOL, like i said look at cliffords 600hp 300 I6, probably a 3 million dollar engine but you cant say you wouldnt love to smoke v8s with an inline 6 just to see the look on their faces once they catch up at the finish line
my plans for my 300...build it (not to the nuts but not mild either), something that can go fast and pull hard, keep the 35s moving in the mud, the 300 already does that just fine, all without breaking the sound barrier at 6000 rpm, something still very reliable but a respectable performer, i have been gathering ideas for some time now and it looks promising, build wont take place for at least another year yet though
and the stock head is crap! i agree, even a mild port/polish will wake a 300 and make it much less sluggish, same with exhaust, intake isnt really that bad