Hybrids?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,293
Likes: 10
From: Parker, CO
Blaine if you are interested in looking into larger injectors, you can do like I did on a budget. I wouldnt quite recommend the DIY kits b/c you cannot bench flow test them, as well as check every part. I have a very good friend who works at a Diesel Injector shop that deals only with the HEUI injectors and I had him build mine on the side at the shop. I bought the nozzles separate and shipped them to him, he took a set of cores from the shop, went through everyone of them, replaced all wear parts, flowed and tested all injectors, and they have all the right equipment, as I mentioned these are the only type of injectors that they deal with. If you are looking into hybrids I thought I would throw this out there as an option, and as others have said, Curtis hit the nail on the head with a great explanation.
However, there is so much more that goes into it besides throwing in a set of hybrids. You are good to go with your motor since it has forged rods. Depending on what size of hybrids/nozzles you went with, there are alot of supporting mods that need to be addressed aswell, such as turbos, fuel system, big oil(depending on how large of hybrids), and not only the stuff for the motor, you have to think about the rest of the truck too, like a clutch if you have a manual, and alot stouter trans if you have an auto(as I mentioned, it depends on how big of hybrids). Along with a list of other things.
It also depends on what you plan to do with the truck, whether it be a daily driver, tow truck, weekend toy etc as to what size injectors/turbo/nozzles/....would best fit the intended purpose.
It all comes down to how much money you want to drop on it. And dont get me wrong you can do quite alot on a budget, it depends on how much you want to squeeze out of what you're running in it.
Hope this helps a little, I've been there before
Fep 9 I bought my truck, only had a pos banks chip, exh and intake
Apr 3 I had the motor tore down to the block rebuilding it for a lil extra hp lol
However, there is so much more that goes into it besides throwing in a set of hybrids. You are good to go with your motor since it has forged rods. Depending on what size of hybrids/nozzles you went with, there are alot of supporting mods that need to be addressed aswell, such as turbos, fuel system, big oil(depending on how large of hybrids), and not only the stuff for the motor, you have to think about the rest of the truck too, like a clutch if you have a manual, and alot stouter trans if you have an auto(as I mentioned, it depends on how big of hybrids). Along with a list of other things.
It also depends on what you plan to do with the truck, whether it be a daily driver, tow truck, weekend toy etc as to what size injectors/turbo/nozzles/....would best fit the intended purpose.
It all comes down to how much money you want to drop on it. And dont get me wrong you can do quite alot on a budget, it depends on how much you want to squeeze out of what you're running in it.
Hope this helps a little, I've been there before
Fep 9 I bought my truck, only had a pos banks chip, exh and intake
Apr 3 I had the motor tore down to the block rebuilding it for a lil extra hp lol
Post Fiend
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 14,582
Likes: 12
From: 21791
A stock injector is usually an "AD" code. This type of injector has a 7:1 ratio on the intensifier piston inside the injector. This means that the space for oil above the piston is 7x more area than the fuel side of the piston. This mechanical leverage is what makes the unit injector build it's injection pressure. Keep into mind, that for ever 150cc of fuel you inject (about capacity of stock injectors, your HPO system must flow 1050cc of oil. probably why alot of you with stock injectors or stroked A codes (160, 180-230cc) need more than stock HPO volume..
B codes are BD code injectors, found in the I530E (6 cylinder) IH engine, found in trash trucks, school busses, some 4900 class IH trucks. These injectors have a 6:1 ratio, and flow ~245-250cc right out of the box. These have 5 hole nozzles, to accomodate the larger bore from the 6 cylinder. The nozzles need to be swapped over for a 7.3 unless you want to spray the fuel outside the bowl. Keep in mind, for every 1cc of fuel, you need 6cc of oil to move it. Usually requires some form of $2000+ oil system to get full use of these.
Then there are the hybrids. Where you put the plunger and barrels out of the B code into an A code body, i'm a little blurry on how it's done, but somehow you do get a 5:1 ratio. Yes, a lower injection pressure, but we arent anywhere close to competing with the 30,000psi injection pressure of the commonrails, so don't even try. Usually a stock pump can keep up with a 238cc Hybrid, usually with a 30% over stock, or 80% FLOW over stock nozzle. This setup with a garrett BB turbo, fuel system etc will get you very close to 500hp on fuel. 30% nozzles probably 450. The beauty of a Hybrid, is if you dont want 230cc, use a larger (taller) piston, make the injector flow less by less piston stroke, and thus uses LESS oil volume than stock. a 200cc hybrid is a perfect injector for a PMR truck, i wish i would have known about them when i wasted my money on stage two's last summer. Stock turbo, stock fuel system, a stock or 30% nozzle, it runs it's *** off for $2000 into injectors, and still is safe for PMR engine. You'll actually GAIN HPO pressure by putting these in, perfect for a weak stock pump that can maintain 2300-2500 or so.
In the high performance 7.3 injector building market, it's all about getting fuel per time, and thats it. The fuel isnt the issue, it's getting 5-6x the oil volume IN and OUT of the injector a few thousand times a minute. So, the lower the intensifier piston ratio, the better off you'll be making high power on a 7.3.
B codes are BD code injectors, found in the I530E (6 cylinder) IH engine, found in trash trucks, school busses, some 4900 class IH trucks. These injectors have a 6:1 ratio, and flow ~245-250cc right out of the box. These have 5 hole nozzles, to accomodate the larger bore from the 6 cylinder. The nozzles need to be swapped over for a 7.3 unless you want to spray the fuel outside the bowl. Keep in mind, for every 1cc of fuel, you need 6cc of oil to move it. Usually requires some form of $2000+ oil system to get full use of these.
Then there are the hybrids. Where you put the plunger and barrels out of the B code into an A code body, i'm a little blurry on how it's done, but somehow you do get a 5:1 ratio. Yes, a lower injection pressure, but we arent anywhere close to competing with the 30,000psi injection pressure of the commonrails, so don't even try. Usually a stock pump can keep up with a 238cc Hybrid, usually with a 30% over stock, or 80% FLOW over stock nozzle. This setup with a garrett BB turbo, fuel system etc will get you very close to 500hp on fuel. 30% nozzles probably 450. The beauty of a Hybrid, is if you dont want 230cc, use a larger (taller) piston, make the injector flow less by less piston stroke, and thus uses LESS oil volume than stock. a 200cc hybrid is a perfect injector for a PMR truck, i wish i would have known about them when i wasted my money on stage two's last summer. Stock turbo, stock fuel system, a stock or 30% nozzle, it runs it's *** off for $2000 into injectors, and still is safe for PMR engine. You'll actually GAIN HPO pressure by putting these in, perfect for a weak stock pump that can maintain 2300-2500 or so.
In the high performance 7.3 injector building market, it's all about getting fuel per time, and thats it. The fuel isnt the issue, it's getting 5-6x the oil volume IN and OUT of the injector a few thousand times a minute. So, the lower the intensifier piston ratio, the better off you'll be making high power on a 7.3.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,293
Likes: 10
From: Parker, CO
1050cc's is 1.2 quarts (1 quart equals 946cc's). A stock 17* HPOP only flows 7.2cc's per revolution, and is slightly underdriven compared to the engine RPM's. So you can see a huge discrepancy coming up pretty quick. If you did need 1050cc's of oil to push stock injectors, then even the strongest aftermarket pumps wouldn't be able to keep up with the volume required to run all 8 injectors.
So really it's not a set oil-to-fuel volume ratio in the injector, but rather a pressure ratio. That 7:1, 6:1, and 5:1 ratio means that you take whatever you oil pressure is, and multiply it by 7, or 6, or 5, depending on what injector you're running, to calculate your injection pressures at the nozzle.
For example, a stock AD injector runs at a 7:1 injection pressure ratio. If your oil pressure is say 3000 PSI at WOT, then you multiply it by 7 to reach an injection pressure of 21,000 PSI.
If you do the math on hybrids, you are actually running lower injection pressures than a stock injector with identical oil pressures.
What increases the amount of oil volume required is the size of the intensifier piston. The larger the intensifier piston, the greater oil volume is needed to make the piston stroke. The reason hybrids use so little oil yet deliver so much fuel is because they retain the A-code intensifier piston, which is smaller than the ones from B-codes, yet still use the plunger and barrel assembly from a B-code. So you get the fuel volume, but with a smaller intensifier piston, it requires only as much oil as an A-code to make that stroke.
Hopefully that clarifies a bit.
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 2,365
Likes: 0
From: IOWA
Do NOT buy from them, unless you want a truck that runs like total crap.
They won't even give you the specs of their injector rebuilds. Without the specs, you can't tune correctly for them. Only a hack job shop would be like that to their customers.
Any quality shop will give you all specs on injector builds, plus provide you with flow matching and sheets to show the flow match.
They won't even give you the specs of their injector rebuilds. Without the specs, you can't tune correctly for them. Only a hack job shop would be like that to their customers.
Any quality shop will give you all specs on injector builds, plus provide you with flow matching and sheets to show the flow match.
Q: I would like information on the hole size and flow rate, why don;t you publish this information on your listing?
A lot of time and money was spent on the development of this product. This information is propriertary and we cannot publish it, other than to give you the horsepower increase.
Do they really think they have something that no one else has done or tried?Thanks for all the great info guys, I've been asking the same question about hybrids. Now I know more than what I thought I needed to.
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