Fuel Tank Mods
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 58
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OK why would you need to add a lift pump,, you are not changing anything,, you are just doing away with the mixing chamber in the fuel tank, and doing away with the fitting that can cause air to be brought into the system....
Being a mechanic for years, it is a fact that if air is getting into the fuel system, then you lose power, so by doing away with the mixing chamber that is bringing by pass fuel and air from the motor back into the tank, and doing away with the pressure fittings that dont hold under vacume where can you go wrong..... YOU CANT....
As far as a lift pump,,, not sure why you might need one,,, you are adding a filter but that should not stress the fuel pump enought to add a lift pump..... anyone else have some ideas on this?
Being a mechanic for years, it is a fact that if air is getting into the fuel system, then you lose power, so by doing away with the mixing chamber that is bringing by pass fuel and air from the motor back into the tank, and doing away with the pressure fittings that dont hold under vacume where can you go wrong..... YOU CANT....
As far as a lift pump,,, not sure why you might need one,,, you are adding a filter but that should not stress the fuel pump enought to add a lift pump..... anyone else have some ideas on this?
Thread Starter
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Junior User
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 58
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What did you use for a lift pump,, I want to put a site glass ahead of a lift pump, then run the ITP filter followed bye the OEM fuel pump.... my main question is this, what lift pump did you use or recommend?
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,541
Likes: 2
From: Dallas-Ft. Worth
I'd say before you do any of this, put a fuel pressure gauge in so you can see it under load. If you're dropping too much pressure, you'll know it. You'll also see how the mods affect things. If there is an added restriction when the ITP kit goes in, you should see a pressure drop...
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
OK why would you need to add a lift pump,, you are not changing anything,, you are just doing away with the mixing chamber in the fuel tank, and doing away with the fitting that can cause air to be brought into the system....
Being a mechanic for years, it is a fact that if air is getting into the fuel system, then you lose power, so by doing away with the mixing chamber that is bringing by pass fuel and air from the motor back into the tank, and doing away with the pressure fittings that dont hold under vacume where can you go wrong..... YOU CANT....
Being a mechanic for years, it is a fact that if air is getting into the fuel system, then you lose power, so by doing away with the mixing chamber that is bringing by pass fuel and air from the motor back into the tank, and doing away with the pressure fittings that dont hold under vacume where can you go wrong..... YOU CANT....
It's the most effective way to get rid of any chance of air intrusion because the entire system is not pressureized, no chance of any air getting sucked in somewhere.
It made a night and day difference in how the engine runs, idles, sounds, everything across the board.
The pump that I used for this task is a Bosch 69430.
I removed the check valve, no need for that, the pump is primed just sitting there and it never bleeds back.
INSTANT startups even after sitting for a week.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
From: Man Cave
ruddy hell. I have just spent the last week sourcing all the parts for the In tank mod and the pre pump filter, now I need a booster pump 
. Thats another 200 bucks over here. I think I might put that on later when i do the RR.
. Thats another 200 bucks over here. I think I might put that on later when i do the RR.
Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,286
Likes: 263
From: North of Greenville
Brian, I would wait for the RR install if I were you, and like Joe said, getting a fuel pressure gauge might be the simplest thing to get to see if you even really need the booster. The gauge would also be a good potential troubleshooting tool as well if you ever have fuel supply issues (i.e. the pickup foot screen or new filter is plugged, etc.)
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Junior User
Joined: Mar 2009
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Dan
I actually thought about rigging a pump to go into the tank and doing away with the external pump, and havent ruled that out yet, My ITP tank mod was shipped today so it gives me a few days to make that final decision, I do like your idea, and you are correct, by putting the pump in the tank it does away with priming, air and all the associated problems....
where did you buy you pump at? what are the specs? how much volume and PSI does this pump put out,,, while I am asking, what pressure is the OEM pump supposed to be putting out?
Woody
I actually thought about rigging a pump to go into the tank and doing away with the external pump, and havent ruled that out yet, My ITP tank mod was shipped today so it gives me a few days to make that final decision, I do like your idea, and you are correct, by putting the pump in the tank it does away with priming, air and all the associated problems....
where did you buy you pump at? what are the specs? how much volume and PSI does this pump put out,,, while I am asking, what pressure is the OEM pump supposed to be putting out?
Woody
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Hotshot
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 11,286
Likes: 263
From: North of Greenville
OEM pressure is supposed to run in the 60-65 psi range at the fuel filter housing on the engine. That makes the discharge pressure at the pump something like 61-66 psi. Supposedly, from what I've read elsewhere, the injector system is supposed to be considered having an "adequate fuel supply" as long as the pressure never drops below about 45 psi (I think I'm remembering that number correctly), but that includes a "fully loaded running condition" and does not refer to "idle conditions".
With my Carter pump in place, I see right at 65 psi on the engine at idle, but since my gauge is under the hood and I have not yet purchased or isntalled an in-cab gauge, I can't tell you what it drops to when I hit the pedal hard at higway speeds. BTW.... I also have NOT shimmed my FPR either.
With my Carter pump in place, I see right at 65 psi on the engine at idle, but since my gauge is under the hood and I have not yet purchased or isntalled an in-cab gauge, I can't tell you what it drops to when I hit the pedal hard at higway speeds. BTW.... I also have NOT shimmed my FPR either.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Dan
I actually thought about rigging a pump to go into the tank and doing away with the external pump, and havent ruled that out yet, My ITP tank mod was shipped today so it gives me a few days to make that final decision, I do like your idea, and you are correct, by putting the pump in the tank it does away with priming, air and all the associated problems....
where did you buy you pump at? what are the specs? how much volume and PSI does this pump put out,,, while I am asking, what pressure is the OEM pump supposed to be putting out?
Woody
I actually thought about rigging a pump to go into the tank and doing away with the external pump, and havent ruled that out yet, My ITP tank mod was shipped today so it gives me a few days to make that final decision, I do like your idea, and you are correct, by putting the pump in the tank it does away with priming, air and all the associated problems....
where did you buy you pump at? what are the specs? how much volume and PSI does this pump put out,,, while I am asking, what pressure is the OEM pump supposed to be putting out?
Woody
I have an account with them for my shop.
That particular pump was used with the Bosch K-Jetronic and KE-Jetronic fuel injection that was used on a lot of european cars.
VW, Audi, Mercedes, etc.
It is designed to operate at 69-73 psi, delivering 30 gallons per hour at that pressure.
It doesn't matter if it is submerged or not, but you need to soak it for a while to dissolve the glue that is holding the label on or it will float free and possibly clog the pickup.
I was lucky, I had a clamp around the body of the pump and it retained the label, but it was loose when I pulled it back out a few weeks later to check on things.
I also took a video of a fuel volume test.
That is a 1 gallon container.
It works out to about 60 gph at zero pressure.
http://good-times.webshots.com/video...ost=good-times
Logistics Pro
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,635
Likes: 3
From: Lansdale, PA
How did you get the wires into the tank, is there a set of wires already for this, or did you have to drill a hole in the sending unit base to get the wires in there. This is all very helpful, Im all about the supporting mods for future power upgrades. I already bought the fuel pressure fitting, just need to find a spot for the fuel pressure gauge and oil temp gauge.
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
I extended the wires from where the fuel pump is mounted.
Then I discovered that there are four pins in the fuel sender unit and made the assumption that two of those pins are for the sender and the other two are for power if it is a gas engine truck. They have the sender and the fuel pump as one unit.
Rather than go into a long explanation, I'll just post a bunch of pictures and you can take it from there.
If you have more questions, I'll be happy to answer them, but a picture is worth a LOT of typing.
There is a difference in the way it is now and the way it is in those pictures.
The wires for the pump were too heavy and they broke, I think due to the fuel sloshing.
The fix was to use 14g wire instead of 10 like I had there.
Then I took an old antifreeze container and cut out a section of plastic, wrapped it around the pump and extended it up above the pump several inches. Similar in shape to a stove pipe standing above the pump and all held in place by that clamp that goes around the pump.
It's effect was to sheild the wiring from the sloshing fuel. The repair that I did for that was about three years ago and it's still holding.
Then I discovered that there are four pins in the fuel sender unit and made the assumption that two of those pins are for the sender and the other two are for power if it is a gas engine truck. They have the sender and the fuel pump as one unit.
Rather than go into a long explanation, I'll just post a bunch of pictures and you can take it from there.
If you have more questions, I'll be happy to answer them, but a picture is worth a LOT of typing.
There is a difference in the way it is now and the way it is in those pictures.
The wires for the pump were too heavy and they broke, I think due to the fuel sloshing.
The fix was to use 14g wire instead of 10 like I had there.
Then I took an old antifreeze container and cut out a section of plastic, wrapped it around the pump and extended it up above the pump several inches. Similar in shape to a stove pipe standing above the pump and all held in place by that clamp that goes around the pump.
It's effect was to sheild the wiring from the sloshing fuel. The repair that I did for that was about three years ago and it's still holding.
PREMIUM SPONSOR
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 6,039
Likes: 73
My kit will be out shortly, maybe even debut during RRE. It will be based on Dan's experience and will be like my CCV and 6637 kits. What I mean by basing them on the other 2 DIY kits is that I am assembling something that anyone can do themselves but will buy parts in bulk and include higher quality parts than you can easily source one or two at a time. Because this is a kit to help everyone from trying to do it themselves, it will be very well price such as the 6637 and CCV, being more for a helping hand than profit.
Cargo Master
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 2,135
Likes: 0
From: Man Cave
Brian, I would wait for the RR install if I were you, and like Joe said, getting a fuel pressure gauge might be the simplest thing to get to see if you even really need the booster. The gauge would also be a good potential troubleshooting tool as well if you ever have fuel supply issues (i.e. the pickup foot screen or new filter is plugged, etc.)
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
From: Johnstown PA
Dan, Is there special wire that is rated for submersion in diesel? and, It looks like the posts for + / - are not covered, I thought electricity didnt get along with liquids very well. Can you elaborate for me.
Thanks
Thanks