Is it possible for the rear axle to be out of alignment?

Budman

 

Yes it is. But most shops will not check it. That is what is called thrust alignment, but if the rear is out, they do not fix it and they do the alignment this way, your truck may crab down the highway. The rear must be square with the rear frame. Anything can throw it out from a sheared centerbolt to bent parts.

 

My 350 2 wheel drive seems to have the same wondering problem that all of you have mentioned, I put a 2 " leving kit on the front (coil springs) lifted the truck 3 " new Rancho shocks, New bridgestone revo tires 10 ply and still have the same problem.
I have crawled under the truck and had someone sit in the cab and start working the wheel, both weight on the tires and weight off the tires, what I have found is that all of the joints and connections are tight, and the only problem I found was slop in the steering gear box. If you watch the shaft of the box and not the pitman arm you can see what I am talking about, I am going to try and replace the pitman arm, but am pretty sure this is not the problem, I am convinced the problem is in the box.
Does anyone know how to adjust the steering boxes,, I really dont want to just loosen the nut and start turning the screw, I would like to have a direction to turn.
I have had different shops try to convince me that I need to replace all of the expensive parts, and if I was not a mechanic myself, they would have definately lightened my wallet, So anyone out there having this steering problem, take a real hard look at the steering gear box slop, I think you will find most of your problems solved there.

 

Read post #71. It contains a description of how to adjust the steering box.

 

Welcome to the site!

 

syahj04--
I have went through the wacky steering problem with my 99 F250 and replaced EVERYTHING. I mean EVERYTHING that has anything to do with the mechanics of the steering with the exception of the steering column itself. NEW gear box, tire rod ends, sway link, ball joints, shocks, bearings, springs, etc, etc, etc. I STILL had the problem. If it were so easy as to replace the gear box, this thread and many others like it would exist. I spent thousands of my hard earned money on this problem before bailing on the truck. Funny how over $2000 worth of parts does not increase the value of the truck one friggin cent.

Only to buy another Pre-05 superduty again.

 

And most of the problems can be solved by setting the caster right. Shops today follow the Golden Book and will not go beyond. Now too much caster will tear up parts and make the vehicle hard to control. The same goes for camber. Ford Trucks needs a little positive camber to stop the tire wear, but not much. The more the wheel stands straight up, the better wear. If you go too far postive, the truck will wander all over the road.

The specs for a SD Diesel if 1.5 to 5.5 positive for Caster with the better amount being 1.5 to 2.0. The Camber should be negative 0.8 to positive 1.3. The best setting I have found for mine (with the oversize tires) is 1.2 positive Caster and 1.5 positive Camber. The toe should be set at a minimum of negative 1.0 for both wheels. Mine is set at negative 1.3 for a total of negative 2.6. All the above is in degrees. And note, mine is not in the guidelines and it steers great.

 

I have problems also, My play seems to be in the steering column or box. I have my wife turn the wheel and the only thing moves is the shaft going into the box. I have seen a few posts here that say there is a joint in the shaft that could be worn out. How would i replace this? Is this a whole new column or can you just replace the joint? Ball joints seem to be ok, but I also have a very hard time moving the wheel at low speeds and at idle. worst part about my truck, It's hell trying to back a trailer when your wheels wont turn........I hope i can one day get it solved.

 

You've got most of your facts down pretty good and I'm not going to argue with what works with your truck but I'm guessing you got those specs off the before and after printout from whatever alignment shop you went to right?

These modern computer alignment machines are built for dummies to align anything to within halfway decent specs, That's why they always give such a wide range for the tech to shoot for. There is no such thing as a PERFECT alignment taught anymore. THis is why I don't do it for anyone else any more.

I believe the factory recommended spec for caster on your truck is 3.5 with a tolerance of + or- 2 degrees and a total split of 0 + or - 1 degree.

That is right out of the factory service manual for a 99 F-250 or 350 super duty 4x4. The 2 wheel drive calls for 4 degrees.

I can guarantee you if some nut sets yours anywhere in the given range you are looking at in that before or after then your truck will be all over the place on the road. It is extremely important to set it where the factory says to, meaning the same on either side and to the ideal angle unless it calls for a 1 degree split as some of our trucks do. A lot of the IFS ford 4x4's call for a caster split on them of 1 degree to aid in steering wheel return and help fight torque steer when you got a full time 4x4 system.

Some trucks do require more caster than others or less like yours. It was good I think that you had yours aligned with the weight in it too. Every manual out there, except for Ferrari, says to have the vehicle empty of all passengers and cargo. I never agreed with that.

My truck, for example, has a slide in camper in it all the time. It's a heavy one too at 2800 pounds. I aligned it with the camper in and the tanks all full in it. The fuel tanks on the truck were also full. That accounted for the tongue load of my trailer close enough I figured.

I set it to exact factory specs and it drives perfect now.

I haven't had this truck very long but I'm close friends with the last owner. He was ripped off for almost 4 years on it and constantly complained of steering all over the place, loose steering, bump steer, Steering wheel off center, Drifting and just about every other symptom you can think of that is BAD.

Can you believe the shops that worked on it actually took off the perfectly fine steering stabilizer in an attempt to correct the bump steer. That guy is a complete idiot. They also replaced all the perfectly fine ball joints and tie rod ends to correct the steering wheel being loose when all it was was the darn steering box out of adjustment. It's amazing how bad people are taken advantage of by garages these days.

When the last owner got fed up with it not being safe to drive I bought it. I guess I should have been a little more forceful telling him to just bring it to me to fix before but he is ok. Now he's got a new Ford chassis motorhome with it's own problems to deal with.

It only took me and my son about 2 hours to fix everything in this truck steering wise.
First thing I did was check the ride height. It was low on the left rear. Believe it or not the rear does strongly effect the front end alignment. I found a bad spring bushing and replaced it. It was almost gone.

Having the ride height right, I went on to tighten the steering box as should be one of the first things done any time you do an alignment. I got about 5-6 inches of play out of the wheel by doing that.

Then I greases the front end good. There's no sense aligning something that is dry.

Next step I aired up the tires to factory specs according to the door sticker. 55 front and 80 rear.
I got lots to say about what people do with their air pressures in their trucks but I'll save that for another thread.

Then I got my gauges out and checked caster and camber. Camber was ok after I put a set of factory, fixed degree and not adjustable bushings back in it. Caster was just hosed. Some nut set it at 0! I corrected that the right way with caster wedges, not on the alignment bushings. caster wedged go between the axle and the spring to actually tilt the axle.
I set it at 3.5 exactly on both sides.
It's amazing now. The steering wheel actually returns to center on it's own!

Next and last step was toe. I can do that in my sleep almost. This is the reason I have walked out of three alignment shops with cars on the racks too. I don't go for the common motto of set the toe and let it go as a lot of shops tried to shove down my throat.

I like my toe dead on perfect and a perfectly straight steering wheel when I let go of it gong down the highway. I always liked the same for my customers and high pressure bosses I worked for only cared about time it took. Money they made in other words.

Toe is so simple my 15 year old can do it. Our preferred method is a tape measure since I don't have a big fancy alignment machine. I have toe bars of all shapes and sizes but the tape measure works best. We set the toe IN to factory specs, 1/4 inch for my trucks. The whole time I do it my son is in the truck, engine running and after each little correction I make underneath I tell him to recenter the steering wheel. While I am checking the total toe with the tape I am also keeping a calibrated eyeball sighting down the side of the trucks tires to keep it all straight with the back axle.
If total toe is in spec and the front tires are in line with the back tires and the steering wheel is straight then everything will be cool on the test drive.

I really hate crooked steering wheels! It is very important that the steering wheel be centered using the power steering!. Most techs set the wheel straight once before they start then put the steering wheel holder on it or just take the key out then never recenter it again. That's why most of your wheels come out crooked!
If it's not centered with the engine running then it puts things in a bind and it never will be straight either.

ANyone getting an alignment should ask for and receive a before and after printout. If they refuse or say they forgot then it's simple. Don't pay for it. That printout is your receipt of a job done right if they didn't fudge the readings. I've seen that done before. I've even had a boss try to do it on a truck that was giving me fits once. I quit that second too! It was a junky old dodge 2 wheel drive truck with worn out bushings all over the place and I was supposed to align it even knowing that. I almost quit then but when I had it as close as it was going to get and was about to hit the print screen button for the after printout the boss came over and leaned on the fender to fudge the camber reading. I rolled my tool box up onto the next lift, backed my truck under it, and left tracks right on out of the parking lot right when he did that.

I think all of you almost need to find a more reputable alignment shop. Every single problem in this thread can be easily remedied by an alignment tech that cares about what he is doing and knows enough to diagnose it right the first time.
One tip I have for finding a good shop is ask if they are paid flat rate or not.

If they are flat rate, then you probably won't get the service you should be getting. That system of paying mechanics needs to be banned in my opinion. It encourages speed over quality.

I've only ever found two shops to work at that did pay me for actual work done and I never once had an unhappy customer at either of them. I was allowed the time it took to do a job right, even if it took longer than some college educated engineer that never got dirty said it would.

 

I called the local Ford dealer and asked about an allignment. They said the price would be $185.00. Further stated they dont put it on the alignment machine but instead do it the old fashioned way with chalk..

I have not heard of that procedure before. Does anyone know about it?

What tools are needed to do your own allignment?

 

Some type of a tutorial on this would be huge. I am having steering problems too.

 

Dunno what the "chalk" method is, would be interested to hear...I align my old muscle cars with a rope and a simple caster/camber gauge and it works great!! Wish I could do my Superduty in a simple fashion too.

 

So the caster should be set at + 3.5 degrees using caster shims? I just want to make sure I know what I am talking about before I go back to the alignment shop. If they don't have these shims where is a good place to get them? How many hour labor would be normal for a job like this?
Thanks,
Budman

 

Caster shims are just simple little wedges about as wide as the leaf spring and they are cheap. I know how long it takes me, half hour roughly, but a shop would probably charge a half hour per side or so. Technically they should be replacing the Ubolts and nuts for liability reasons too if they take them off to do caster shims. I would on someone elses truck. I do it case by case on mine. These shims normally are only good for leaf sprung trucks too. On a coil spring front end if your caster is off then they need to look hard at the radius arm bushings. They are probably wasted. Also at your back suspension. If the back suspension has been jacked up or lowered then that effects caster. I always prefer to fix the problem rather than adjust it out but that is just me.

Ask how that Ford dealer plans to check and adjust caster and camber. They were only referring to a toe alignment with the chalk method. That is old school but it works fine if the tech cares about what he is doing. I do toe similar but instead of chalk I use yellow spray paint. I get my son to spin the tire when it's jacked up then I spray a paint line right in the middle of the tread.

While he is still spinning it I take a sharp scriber and scribe a line in the paint.

The problem with the "chalk method is chalk is about a quarter inch thick. I've never seen anyone using this method scribe a fine line in the chalk to measure to. They just try to hold the middle of the chalk line with the tape measure. It's about as accurate as using a tape measure made out of a rubber band.

With the paint method I do and scribing a fine line in the paint, then the line I have to measure against is less than 1/16 inch. 1/16 error on each side can quickly add up to at least a crooked steering wheel.

I also got my son trained to burn 6 inches on the tape measure. Have any of you ever tried to accurately use the tab on the end of one to measure something. On alignments we use the 6 inch mark instead.

These things need to be done precisely. Chalk just doesn't get it really.

I'm actually surprised to hear a Ford dealer is even allowing that. I did alignments on the ground all the time when the truck was too big for the rack and my bosses never liked it one bit. It didn't matter to them that I never once had a comeback on alignments either. Any Ford dealer worth a darn these days though should have a machine for alignments.

I've been aligning things for a few years in case anyone was wondering.

 

Here's a basic tutorial for bad steering.

1. First check and adjust your air pressure to factory recommended pressures on the door sticker. NOT THE TIRE MAX PRESSURE. If your tires can't take that much air then you have the wrong tires and that's probably your problem.

2. get an assistant for this. Have your assistant slowly move the steering wheel side to side with the engine off while you look at all the steering linkage from underneath. This will tell you if you have a bad tie rod end, pitman arm or anything like that. Any movement in them is bad.

3. For this step you will need to jack up the front tires.
Jack up each tire about 2 or 3 inches off the ground and have your assistant put a big prybar under then and try to jack it up and down while you look at the ball joints from underneath. If you see any movement at all with just a person jacking the tire up then that ball joint is bad.

4. Put that truck back on the ground jump on each corner to settle the suspension back out and then with a tape measure or a ruler check your ride heights on all 4 corners.
On the fronts of our trucks you check it from the frame above the front bump stops to the axle on a 4x4. Same place if it's IFS front end.
On the rear I like to check from the axle up to the frame.
You should have even numbers across the front and back.
If you have done a levelling kit then your alignment is probably whacked. Levelling one of these trucks really screws up caster at a minimum.
If you have one corner lower than the opposite one then check for bad bushings that can cause it.

5. Check for play in your steering wheel with the engine running. I say an inch of side to side movement is acceptable before the wheels respond but no more than one inch. Since you have already eliminated the front end as a problem then you should adjust the steering box now. I recommend changing the fluid in it too. It never hurts and rarely gets done till somethign fries anyway.

6. If you are still having problems then look for irregular wear patterns on your tires. Scrubbing, cupping, inside or outside wear? If the tires look ok and it's a pull you are trying to diagnose then flop the front tires side to side. If it pulls the other way then you got a bad tire.

7. Find an alignment shop if none of this helps but call around first. Look at the alignment machine and the tech. If he looks like you wouldn't want him cleaning your pool then go with that instinct.
Insist on before and after printouts and DO NOT PAY if they do not provide it. If they can't print it from the computer then the tech can write it down. I hate ranges for alignment specs but if your shop is using big ranges then make sure they are written down and make sure your alignment is dead in the middle of the range they are given. It's not right if it's anywhere else but in the middle.
Be sure to write out all of your symptoms and problems and give it to the mechanic directly. NOT the service manager! It will get lost. A mechanic can't fix something he doesn't know about and they rarely get paid enough to go looking for problems.
When you get it back drive around the block before going home. Make sure your steering wheel centers itself when you let go of it. If it's crooked then your toe is not right.

If you are getting hosed by the alignment shop then go to another one and send the first one the bill. I've done that before and they paid it too. I was still in the navy back then and didn't have my own tools for aligning cars yet.

I almost forgot something. If you go into a shop for an alignment and you are sold a front wheel alignment and they say they can't do a 4 wheel alignment on a truck then run, don't walk. It's BS but many of them do this. It's called set the toe and let it go. It should have a 4 wheel alignment checked at least. If your back axle is off then your front end will never be right. Anything on th eback end out of whack needs to be fixed before proceeding to align the front end.