This is for my dad's truck (he is F250_ for those who don't know). It is a 2002 F-250 7.3 liter Diesel. I have been driving it for the past couple of months, and I am the one who has it now, so I am the one posting the question. Just as a quick background, here are the mods that my dad has done: 6637 & cover, Fumoto, AIH, zoodad, OilGuard bypass, Cackle-cure, HPX, foil delete, CCV, InTanks, Lift Pump, Boost tube (that list was copied from his signature: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/member.php?u=370090 ).

Ok, lately I have been noticing that when cold, the truck turns over a little longer than usual before it finally starts. Maybe ~1 second longer. I just chalked it up to the cooler mornings we have been having lately. Now, today I noticed that it took even longer to start--around 6-8 seconds total (that is much longer than usual). Please keep in mind that these time estimates are just that-estimates. I tried to be accurate, but they might be a little off. Still, it has been taking longer to start, and it was even longer this morning. Tonight when I went to start it, it was cold and it made some weird type of pause in the middle of the firing sequence. Here's what happened:
1) I turned the key and the engine started turning over...
2) I heard the engine start firing...
3) I immediately let go of the key as I heard this...
4) The engine turned over once while firing (as I was letting go of the key)...
5) The engine stopped or paused, and for a split second made no sounds of ignition...Its hard to say for sure since it all happened so fast, but I think there might have been some type of "catch" sound like some gears were doing something they shouldn't...
6) Then the engine finally started after that split second "catch" or pause.

This is the only time this has happened, and it started and ran perfectly afterwards. It continues to start perfectly when warm, and it only takes a couple of rotations then. It has been running great, and the only other problem that I have noticed in the months that I have been driving it was 2 isolated cases of a momentary slip or pause in acceleration--it felt like the transmission.

I did not touch the key or any other controls again after I let go of the key; the engine did all of the rest completely on its own, without my intervention.

I took the truck to O-Reilly's, and got both batteries and the alternator checked. Both batteries checked out fine, the driver's side had 12.83 volts and the guy couldn't remember the charge on the other one, but when he checked it his words were "100% good". The batteries are Optima Redtops, and I think they are 6-12 months old. The alternator checked out fine as well. I don't know what else to check, and I am sort of stumped. I am also sort of worried about getting stranded somewhere, because this is starting to look like it is getting progressively worse, and picking up speed as it goes.

What do you guys think? Any ideas or insight as to what is wrong, or suggestions about things to check? Since it doesn't look like it is the batteries or alternator, maybe its the starter? Especially important, I will be driving 100 miles back home tomorrow, so will that be ok, or am I actually in some risk of being stranded, or not being able to get back?

Thanks in advance guys!

 

bump cause im not really sure

 

Ben:
Check your battery connections first. Make sure that they are tight and clean. Also check the grounds both ends. Lastly check the wires goin to the starter.
Does they key feel "funny" or kinda "sticky in the ignition? The rason why I'm aking is because I had a 98 PSD and when it got cold out the ignition would tick sometimes.

 

a starter that is starting to go will cause it to drag like that, even with good batteries.

 

With the engine off, your batteries should have about the voltage you stated, but with the engine running, you should see about 14.4 volts.

You need to see what the voltage is while running and report back.

If it's below about 14, your alternator's regulator isn't what it should be.

Take the "running" voltage reading after the engine's been running for at least three minutes to insure that the glow plugs aren't still on.

Pop

 

Agree with pop on checking your V-after 3 min.

after that I would turn truck off and turn key on and check gpr with a test light to ensure it is good and your gp's are working!


check all the obvious connections and make sure are clean and tight


If after that is good I would replace that starter! go from there

 

I had forgotten that Benjamin was running this thread until Barry reminded me a few minutes ago in a PM.

The batteries were replaced back in the spring of this year... can't remember the exact date, but Benjamin has that detail in my "log book" (in the truck) that I use to record mileage, mods, and all maintenance details.

From everything he told me last night, I think he'll be fine to get home this afternoon because none of the issues are taking palce while he's actually driving (except for the potential tranny slippage, if that's what it really is).

We will be going over the engine today and tomorrow, cleaning the engine bay, changing oil in two other vehicles, starter solenoid relay on my Ex, etc. We will double check all hot/ground connections on starter and batteries and recheck voltages, etc. as well.

He'll post back with a report of what we do and if we find anything. I just LOVE being "Dad" at times like this!

Thanks for all the input.


BTW... Benjamin... good job on describing everything!

 

When was the last oil change on the truck?
I'm wondering if the HPOP rails are getting foamed and the air bubble has to be compressed before the engine will start.

 

Thanks for bringing the oil issue back up, Dan.

The oil has about 10K miles on it, but I've typically been able to run 12-13K OCI's with excellent UOA's and not these troubles. Benjamin just sampled the oil and topped it off about 4-5 weeks ago, so I do not suspect an oil "quality" problem due to my past experience with this same oil. I'm still running the Schaeffer's 9000 5w40 syn and both bypass and full flow filters have been replaced at each OC.

One caveat.... I had run a thread about 15-18 months ago about a similar starting issue, but it was only when the engine was hot, and my cold start-ups were perfect! At that time, we all ended up with some questions as to whether or not the IPR valve o-rings might be leaking a tad when the engine was hot and the oil viscosity was lower, resulting in low HPOP level and a resultant slight starting difficulty (still only about 3-5 seconds to start when hot compared to 1-2 seconds when cold).

That "hot start" condition has never gotten any worse, so I have never pursued that issue any further. The fact that the starting diffficulty is exactly opposite now from what it was last year.... well, it leaves me with more wonderment than ever.

Also, the "cooler" mornings Benjamin mentioned have all been above 50 degrees, so it's not like the ambient temps have really cooled off enough to where it should make any significant difference in things. We'll look into the HPOP level as well this weekend, though.

 

Like Dad said, we will do a thorough inspection when I get home. Two things to note that I did not mention in the first post:
1) I have not been waiting for the "wait to start" light to turn off before starting the engine. Dad corrected me on that last night, but I guess that might be a source for potential problems?
2) When I disconnected the batteries last night to get them checked, there was a little bit of white residue on the passenger side battery-I beleive it was on the positive post.

What you are saying was happening really is exactly opposite of what is going on now. Now it is closer to 1-2 seconds when hot, and 3-5 seconds when cold. Just for the record, I did start it like you told me to this morning, and it didn't make any weird sounds, it just took a little too long like I explained before.
My class is getting ready to start, so I need to go. I'll check back in later.

 

mine started taking longer to start a couple years ago and I put up with it for over a year
when it finally got to where I had to heat it on warm starts I started doing some checking
What I found was 2 things
1 the alternator was only putting out 13.25 volts and on short trips wasn't charging the batteries properly
2 the starter was getting puny

with a new alternator and reduction starter it will start easy in the 40s with no glow plug help

 

Could someone explain this in a little more detail? I don't quite understand "foamed" HPOP rails.

 

[quote=F250_JR;6657545]
When I disconnected the batteries last night to get them checked, there was a little bit of white residue on the passenger side battery-I beleive it was on the positive post.
quote]
The white residue is corrosion. When the terminals get corroded the resistance increases causing the voltage to "push" harder to get through the wires, your result is a voltage drop and heat.

Clean the terminals and clamps really good. As a precaution I use Noalox on the terminals and clamps. This stuff is electrically conductive so you can put it directly on the post and place the clamp over it. I also put a thin coating over the tops of the clamps. You can get Noalox in the electrical aisle at Home Depot or Lowes.

 

OK... wet all day Friday and more time than expected on the '96 Suburban's brakes (late start, had to get a large hex driver to remove calipers, and ended up having to get one new caliper as well), so we have not gotten a complete and thorough inspection on the F250's wiring connections or cleaned any engine bays. I have verified that teh battery terminals are definietly tight and clean after Benjamin's disconnect/reconnect exercise. We just still need to check the relay and starter wiring conections, and Benjamin will probably do that one evening this week if I can't get it done before he leaves to go back to school here shortly.

Anyway, I just checked the HPOP level and found it to be a little lower than ideal, as indicated below in the diagram. The truck had sat 100% unused for about 48 hours before I checked the level.

Here's my question... which point do you use as the measure for "how far down" the oil is from the top? Point "A"? or Point "B"? I only ask because there is about a 3/8" difference in the two reference points. I know that in either case it seems that my check valve is leaking a little, but it doesn't seem too severe right now since hte truck is starting and running rather well... it just has that momentary extended start time when it's cold that Benjamin brought up in the first post.

Also... Jim... thanks for the tip on the boattery terminal coating. We'll look into that one for sure.

 

The manual calls for the oil to be within 1" of the inspection plug, so I would consider B or 1.25" to be your situation. Have you considered topping off the reservoir in the morning to see if that changes the your / his cold start issue?

As for the oil issue and good results on the UOA. Does the analysis monitor the amount of anti-foaming additive? If not, and the anit-foam stuff is wearing down, then I would guess you'll soon notice more performance issues with the truck running. Aerated oil could also add to the low level in the HPOP reservoir since the full level is based upon the top of the stand pipe, but I would think if you had 1/4" of air in the reservoir you would notice more than just cold starting issues.