Think of this...

The high pressure oil pump is pumping as much as it can at all times, but there is less pressure because the ipr is releasing the oil back into the pan like a regulator ...

When the pcm calls for more pressure to the injectors, the ipr closes which causes a pressure buildup...

All this time, oil is being moved thru the system, whether the pcm and injectors are calling for as much pressure the pump can put out or your sitting there at idle. The pump doesn't pump any less, it's a pressure buildup thing...

So now, if this oil is constantly being pumped thru the system, common sense would say (at least to me) that the oil is the same throughout the entire system.

I can see where you would want to change it out if you felt a quart or so of dirty oil would make a difference, but then what about all the dirty oil still clinging to the sides of the pan, and in the oil rails or oil lines?

I think the idea is that in the grand scheme of things, it don't matter as long as you change the oil when needed, and changing the oil in the hpop reservoir wont do anything but MAYBE buy you a day or three extra on the changing of the oil.

Ok, enough from the guy that nobody knows.

 

Exactly! That's over seven percent dirty oil you're leaving in the engine if you don't.

I'd get the oil rails, too, if they were as easy to get to.

Pop

 

I believe a dry engine holds somewhere over 18 quarts, however draining the sump wil only get about 14 out. There is still oil in the oil galleys in the block, heads, and the HPO rails, the oil cooler, on top of the heads under the VC, in the Hpop, reservoir, you know it all adds up. Im going to find out tomorrow how much a bone dry engine will hold... The more old oil you get out when you do a change, the better. Removing the plug and sucking out the oil only takes a minute, plus i like working on my truck so it's kinda win-win situation. If you were at JiffyLube though, dont expect them to do it.

 

Hey ROLAND.... been trying to make contact with you. Check your email and PM's.

Sorry for the hijack, guys. I'm stillr eading this thread through for the first time. Good info. Still mulling it over myself, too. From a 30,000 foot perspective, though, I think Kris hit the point dead on. The point of changing the oil is to remove the "bad" and replace it with the "good". The more "bad" you get out the better... that HAS to be true even if you can't measure it in terms of engine life, mileage, etc.

If you're tendencies line up with those of a perfectionist, then suck out the reservoir oil and be happy that you've gone the extra mile. If, on the other hand, your pragmatically driven and short on time or just prefer to not do "extra stuff", take the conventional approach and be happy that you've at least saved yourself the potential headache of wondering if someone else did it right.

The only problem I have with some of the comments made thus far is that there are some folks on either side of the fence who either call or imply that the other side is stupid or dumb, when the facts do seem to support what Curtis has mentioened - the extra step is not recommended by either Ford or International, and there are plenty of engines with extensive miles on them where the "top end" was never changed. But those facts have to be balanced also with facts like neither Ford nor International recommend increasing the air filter size even though we all know that more air is better.

I just don't see enough benefit on either side of this issue to bicker over the differences, even though the discussion does bring opportunity to increase the knowledge and awareness of some of us (like me) who are not as fluent with the oil system's design and operation. For that education, I thank you guys.

 

I kinda believe it's one of those things that you do if it makes you happy. I had 139k miles on the HPOP oil before it was changed. That does not mean that all of that oil had 139k miles, but a mixture of new and old oils. The new oil was diluting the old left in the reservoir after an engine oil change. Like said, "you can't get all of the HPOP" oil out. I noticed a "slight" difference in the oils removed from the pan and reservoir, but not enough to say that "not" changing the HPOP oil is killing your engine. There is nothing wrong in getting as much dirty oil out, as possible, at your oil change. It is just going that extra distance to have piece of mind.

 

I had no idea about doing this and do need to change oil. If I were to suck out the HPOP whats the best way of doing so (what kind of pump)? And can or how do you get the gunk under the screen?

Also another question, not to Hyjack but can I add an oil addative? I have some Lucis oil additive and it said " good for diesel". Just wondering. thanks guys.

 

"NO" to the Lucas. Don't do it! On the "BobIsTheOilGuy" website, there is a demo video of what happens when the Lucas treatment is added... creates tremendous aeration issues. If you send a foamy mixture of air and oil to the injectors, the air reduces how much oil the injectors see in addition to the fact that the air will compress under pressure, thereby reducing the otherwise higher hydraulic pressure generated by the HPOP, and then you end up with improper fuel injection.

Here is a link to the "sucker" thread where a homemade device is discussed in detail. https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...at-sucker.html

 

There is absolutely no reason to put an additive in if you are using good quality motor oil.

 

OK OK I wont, is it ok to add to wifes gasser?

 

You can read about the HPOP oil change and ways to do it here: https://www.ford-trucks.com/forums/7...il-change.html The screen can only be accessed by removing the resevoir and gasket to reach into that pocket. The screen is cup-shaped, so there is not much oil that can be under it. It is screening the incoming oil from the LPOP.

 

I've just re-read some of what Curtis, Mike, and Marv have posted and realized something that may be useful for those who really want to purge the HPOP. For all others, it's of no use.

From Curtis' experience with his Terminator, he has just given us the perfect way to purge ALL the oil from the HPOP... ....pour in slowly from the top and hydraulically displacing the HPOP contents... even the oil under the screen!

That approach would be even MORE effective if you sucked out the upper portion first and poured that initial replacement in rapidly to "stir things up a bit" inside the reservoir before continuing with a longer, slower, steady flush flow.

After performing that "flush", you could drain the flushed oil out of the pan for an even "purer" oil change, but it might cost an extra gallon of oil.

Just for clarity, I am not recommending that you should go through the extra steps to do this flush exercise. I was just letting the theoretically-driven engineering part of my brain run rampant for a few minutes.

 

Didnt know this would stir up a hornets nest posting this but I still feel better changing the hpop oil , just my opinion. Out with the old and in with the new as much as possible.

 

LOL, I don't think you need to worry about the hornests nest thing. The people in this forum are mostly friends/family. There will not be any hard feelings in here.

 

I'm going to muddy the water a bit here and say that my IPR went out a week after doing the HPOP reservoir drain/fill process, which I did 4 times. With that said, did the IPR go out because of it being the original IPR with 160K miles or did I stir up some gunk during the reservoir drain/fill process that made the IPR stick and fail?! Was it a combination of both? To be honest, I don't know! I do know that I visually compared the oil from the reservoir and the oil from the oil pan in two seperate clear containers and the difference in color was like night and day. Which is the very reason I did the the drain/fill process 4 times! 5 times if you count all the oil draining out of the reservior during the IPR change out. We can debate this until we're blue in the face but what it comes down to, at least to me, is the warm and fuzzy feeling of knowing I've got good clean oil in the high pressure oil system.
Now don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that the oil is not circulated thru the reservior, but it might not be circulated as well as it should be. My advise: pull your own samples and do a visual compairision, if its the same color...great! If its not, then you kow what you need to do.

 

Well we all haven't ribbed each other in quite a while. Gene used to be good at getting 50 page threads going. Ahhhh the good ol' days