Changing top end oil
Hook it, I'll pull it.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 15,037
Likes: 4
From: Grand Lake, La.
If you are saying a lot of oil comes out of the injectors, then I will rest this. At this point I don't know.
Can you do what you are saying? Start the engine and watch the oil fly? I am close to doing injectors,
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,892
Likes: 2
From: Middle Tennessee
No, that proves nothing, and I am getting PO'd now, what you need to do is look at the HPOP reservoir and the pickup for the HPOP. Oh, never mind. Just do what you want. I could try to be impressive and discuss the oil flow through the HPO system complete with the spill spouts from the injectors, but I won't. I just want to point out that the HPOP does not pick up oil from the VERY BOTTOM of the HPOP reservoir. That is where the problem arises.
Posting Guru
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 1,521
Likes: 0
From: Tupelo,Ms
Hook it, I'll pull it.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 15,037
Likes: 4
From: Grand Lake, La.
No, that proves nothing, and I am getting PO'd now, what you need to do is look at the HPOP reservoir and the pickup for the HPOP. Oh, never mind. Just do what you want. I could try to be impressive and discuss the oil flow through the HPO system complete with the spill spouts from the injectors, but I won't. I just want to point out that the HPOP does not pick up oil from the VERY BOTTOM of the HPOP reservoir. That is where the problem arises.
Thanks Mike, I have no idea what to beleive about this. Not one person can tell me how much oil comes out of the infectors after they fire. I know how much fuel it burns,
But not if it pumps enough oil to replace the oil at a steady rate to change the oil in the HPOP tank. Call me nuts.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,600
Likes: 3
From: Carhenge
Yes, you can pull the valve covers and start the engine. Just make sure you have the deflector spouts installed on the injectors when you do it. There used to be a video of an engine running with the covers off floating around here.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,892
Likes: 2
From: Middle Tennessee
so mike what your saying is that while the oil in the HPOP may look ok its the "sludge" if you will; that settles on the bottom that is the true problem right? i am not trying to be smart or nothing but i will be changing the oil this weekend and i will probably do this hpop change also.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,600
Likes: 3
From: Carhenge
That is exactly what I am saying. Problem is, with the newer trucks, You will not be able to get to the bottom to suck out the crap due to the screen in the HPOP reservoir gasket without poking a hole in it. Maybe this is why everyone seems to be so happy with what they suck out from the top. By golly that ought to look good.
Is there some flaw in my logic?
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,293
Likes: 10
From: Parker, CO
LPOP feeds the HPOP. So the oil in the HPOP is the same as what's in the rest of the engine. The HPOP is not a closed system, so fresh oil always circulates through it.
Our engines take at least 15 quarts of oil. When you change the oil, you're going to refill with close to 14 quarts. 1 quart of older motor oil is a drop in the bucket and nothing to be concerned about. Many of these engines go 500K plus without ever once draining the HPOP oil.
You can't completely drain the HPOP reservoir. It is impossible, the screen gets in the way.
Last, try adding oil to the HPOP reservoir. If you add it slow enough, you can add quart after quart of oil into it until you fill up the oil pan. When I installed my Termy system, for fun I put 3 quarts of oil into the HPOP reservoir. Extra oil was dumping into the oil pan and showing up on the dipstick.
So again, changing the oil in the HPOP is going to be a waste of time. It's an unnecessary step and it won't prolong the life of any component in your engine. It is not a procedure recommended by either Ford or International.
Our engines take at least 15 quarts of oil. When you change the oil, you're going to refill with close to 14 quarts. 1 quart of older motor oil is a drop in the bucket and nothing to be concerned about. Many of these engines go 500K plus without ever once draining the HPOP oil.
You can't completely drain the HPOP reservoir. It is impossible, the screen gets in the way.
Last, try adding oil to the HPOP reservoir. If you add it slow enough, you can add quart after quart of oil into it until you fill up the oil pan. When I installed my Termy system, for fun I put 3 quarts of oil into the HPOP reservoir. Extra oil was dumping into the oil pan and showing up on the dipstick.
So again, changing the oil in the HPOP is going to be a waste of time. It's an unnecessary step and it won't prolong the life of any component in your engine. It is not a procedure recommended by either Ford or International.
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Hook it, I'll pull it.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 15,037
Likes: 4
From: Grand Lake, La.
OK, I changed my oil a few days ago without changing the oil in the HPOP. I looked at the oil on the stick today and it was clear. I will pull oil out of the HPOP tomorrow and see if it is clear. If it not, I will question all this again. . I have been on both sides of this damn fence for far too long.
. I have been on both sides of this damn fence for far too long.
Lead Driver
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 8,298
Likes: 25
From: Damon (South East Texas)
My observation during the HPOP oil change was that the oil in the reservoir contained slightly more solids (soot). The HPOP oil flush mixed the old and new oils in a suspension and allowed them to pulled out together. This being done a few times would help to remove the "build up" in the bottom of the reservoir. The biggest benefit being the old oil in the reservoir and block passage being removed to reduce contamination of the crancase oil during the engine oil change. Hence, cleaner oil is supplied to the injectors.
The argument to all of this seems to be how much is being returned back to the reservoir by the HPOP and how much is actually returned to the crankcase by the injector oil spouts.
The argument to all of this seems to be how much is being returned back to the reservoir by the HPOP and how much is actually returned to the crankcase by the injector oil spouts.
Post Fiend
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 9,293
Likes: 10
From: Parker, CO
I've only drained the HPOP reservoir once, and that was to install the Termy system. The oil that came out of my reservoir looked identical to what was in the engine (I changed the oil at the same time). It wasn't any better or worse off.
When I pulled off the HPOP reservoir, there was still a lot of oil at the base. A syphon couldn't get to it because of the screen in the way. By the way, I found zero sludge in the reservoir, and nothing on the screen. That was with over 90K miles on the engine.
Personally, I think this "upper oil change" is just a temporary fad due to the Youtube video. Just wait, a year from now people will be posting about this and chuckling to themselves.
When I pulled off the HPOP reservoir, there was still a lot of oil at the base. A syphon couldn't get to it because of the screen in the way. By the way, I found zero sludge in the reservoir, and nothing on the screen. That was with over 90K miles on the engine.
Personally, I think this "upper oil change" is just a temporary fad due to the Youtube video. Just wait, a year from now people will be posting about this and chuckling to themselves.
Hook it, I'll pull it.
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 15,037
Likes: 4
From: Grand Lake, La.
What is this screen doing? Is it screening the oil coming in or going out. Does the LPOP pump below the screen going up thuough the screen? What the hell is the screen screening?
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 11,892
Likes: 2
From: Middle Tennessee
Not from me. The worst oil I have found in my truck came from that reservoir. Of course I have not had my truck since new so who knows, but that stuff sucked.
Hotshot
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 17,988
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From: La La Land
My thinking only, for what it's worth.....
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