Two short comments.

First is that I think Keith's max effort Eds are a lot more radical than mine - if memory serves right they involve welding and offset rockers. I try to target the street/bracket type customer that wants parts closer to a bolt together configuration.

Second is to emphasize caution when comparing flow bench numbers. They seem to vary widely. We use a SuperFlow 1020 Probench which is computerized. Most shops use the SuperFlow 600 which is read from a manometer. Both are good equipment - but they give different readings. I had a earlier generation BT CNC head flowed at several different places around the country and got many widely varied readings - from a low result of 337 to a high of 364. These were very credible guys including Flowmaster, Kaase, R&R ...

 

Yeah Barry most good engine builders that are worth there salt wont go with just one set of flow #s coming off of one Bench....I know Jon when he developed the P-51 head for the 385 based motors ..Sent a set to Scotty J , and Charlie evens, and Randy Mc, to see how they stacked up to the #s he was getting in house....So when he advertised the flow #s when they were ready for the public to buy it was an average of what all the top head porters came up with...So thus + or - what they may actually flow..But in the ballpark...

Russ

 

Guys, . It is nice that I am not the only one who realizes this can be done. What surprizes me is that noone asked how I would do it. And Russ, you keep mentioning that 'low octane swill', I wouldn't use it and don't recommend it to others either. With Ethanol85 available for less money than regular unleaded, and 105 octane right from the pump....just use that. Seems like a no-brainer to me. So you have to play with the carb a bit.......we all know how to change jets, right ? In all honesty, someone who knows carbs could probaly find a whole bunch of extra power with this stuff, if you knew which emulsion tubes and boosters and other carb parts to use.

Now, as to dyno sheets, those belong to the customer. Maybe the dyno owner guys have copies of some of them, but since we don't have a dyno ourselves and have to pay for time in the room, I couldn't tell you for sure. But I will see if I can get a copy of the papers the next time we send one out for a pull. But most guys don't want to pay for the extra time and trouble of doing a dyno run. So when that might happen is anyones guess. DinosaurFan, on work's old 'puter

 

Well As mentioned in the first question we were Talking stock 390 heads..and even if you go hang bigger valves in them, sure your gonna get a bit more flow... But the kid then changes his mind and said well his buds gonna do what ever need to be done to the heads..Well that does change the equation !!

But what some of the Engine Masters were trying to say was at the theory of 2hp per CFM only applies at max effort on the engine build and a few tricks to boot !! So thats just a rule of thumb for Race Engines.. and not the average street build...

anyway you believe what you want to and I'll do the same this back and forth is a moot point at this time....I think Dino you would have client standing inlines a mile long for one of your stock 450hp 390's Hell I would..... I have plenty of relatives from Flatrock to Traverse City....and if you like I'll run up a .030" over D4 390 block and a set of C4AE-G's with CJ size valves.. a C5 intake, complete and balanced 3.784" totating assy..BTW the block has already been zero decked and squared, and Oil mods have been done...ect.

But it will be all stock , but the valves..Oh and the slugs are for a 68 390GT somewhere around 10 to 1 or there abouts...As a matter of fact I think My Neighbor even has a stock bump stick for the GT new in the box..I can bring that too... So I supply the parts ! for this 450hp build, How much is your labor?? well actually that should be free!! LOL..

Dont get me wrong Dino !! I'am not trying to pick fly ***** out of pepper...But I'd like to see it be done...and no better place than some of my old parts!!! LOL..

Russ

 

Dino FWIW there are NO E85 stations here in CT. Most are in the midwest and only 1200 stations across the US. E85 Fuel Stations so we are stuck with either 87-89-93 unleaded pump or unleaded/leaded race gas at close to $10 a gal. So while it's a nice idea to throw that out there it's not an option for everyone. I wish we had it here. At less than the price of regular and 105 octane we'd all be in line for it here.

 

hey Glenn, $10 aint bad for RG...I think Nick just said he paid $13 to load up down in florida for the bash race !!

 

No kidding!!! Yea were holding steady at $9.98 a gal here!!! LOL at least $20 worth will get me a few fun miles anyway!!! LOL!!!

 

I hear that Phillip Oakley is a Race fuel Dealer and is going to have all the grades of RG at the Track...But I guess for Nicks Spray runs "IF" needed he's running a 118 blend..Last I heard anyway....I cant wait for Damon to make the Vids Man!!

Are we taking the Cat Next year??? I can barrow from one of the Cuz's the slicks off the Stang, and some 90/10 shocks !! as stout as your build is ..we can even hit it with the 150hp bottle too !!! But your gonna need some new axles and some 1350's for joints!! Sounds like fun doesnt it!!

 

We'll see?? Everything is coming apart this fall as you know. So hopefully it'll be done by then. As long as the $$$ holds out and I can buy everything I need we should be in good shape. Sounds like a blast tho and I'd really like to go.

 

Sounds like this will be the winter for projects. I have a friend in So. Cal. that has a original 32 Ford Roadster and he is rebuilding for next year. He bought it when he was 17 and now he is 72. I will be building the Falcon or the Cobra, which ever works out for next year. I am not sure what race gas is here, but it can't be to bad 1/4 mile at a time.

 

LOL Lloyd the RG is the cheap part !!! Its keeping all the parts in the block and the Valve springs working!!! LOL....

I was reading Mr. Cole's post on another forum last night and he sports an A460 based block in a Rear engine digger , long wheel base...He managed to get 1200 rounds out of the build..Its was altho freshened 120 to 140 pass's ago.... and he finally Launched the bottom end...NOT bad!! but he think the only thing that may have survived was the heads? and the Intake and carb? I guess we'll find out after the bash when he can tear into it....

 

Yes, that is a concern. I have never destroyed a 428 yet, but they say at around 700 hp, they split the block. We might find out next year. With the build I plan, and the nitrous I will put to it, we should be on the plus side of 700 hp.
It all depends on if this guy buys my 427 Medium riser or not, and if we can make a deal on one of his Cobra kits. Another option is to buy the aluminum 427 block and install the stroker kit for 484 ci. One thing for sure, is I will not race the 427 Medium riser, due to it being all original, and stock bore. It is worth more to a guy building a Cobra kit car. I have been offered $8,000 for it, and that will buy the aluminum block and stroker kit. He is supposed to come up with the money in August, so we will see. That way I do not have to cash in any of our CD's. Another option is to buy one of his Cobra kits, cash in a CD and build the 484. We will know more in August.

 

Well being how you already have the 428, I'd just get the ProGrams Crossbolt Main sytem. So you dont smoke a crank and tear up the crank saddle and let Er rip.... about $320 for the ain caps and depending on the shop...$150 to $300 for the machine work... Good insurance if you plan on spinning it , and throw some spray to it....

 

I have a couple extra 428's just in case I break a few. Two are 4.16 bore, so they should not be bored again for high performance use. I bought the 2.25 intake valves and also a set of 2.19 intake valves, and would like to use the 2.25 in the Edelbrock heads, but can not use them in the 4.13 bore, and probably will not work in the 4.16 bore, so the Genesis blocks would be the answer for the large intake valves. Until I make a decision, the Edelbrock heads are setting on the shelf. Your idea of cross bolting the mains on the 428 block might be the way to go. I can't remember where they said the weak point on the 428 blocks was at 700 hp, but I don't think they said that it was around the crankshaft, but higher up in the block. They said that they had split a couple at that hp range. My engine is close at 660 hp, but I have never built one that had 700 hp. My 660 hp was made with a healthy shot of nitrous. If this is true, and I put the 4.25 stroker in one of our 428 engines, and then put the nitrous to it, maybe I would have a catastrophic engine failure. The Genesis block is looking better all the time.
One way to test it is to build my 428scj back up with all the same parts and just add another 50 hp of nitrous and see if she blows, before installing the new heads, cam, roller rockers and stroker kit.
BTW,,, There is a rocker arm company that makes a FE roller rocker two piece aluminum upper and lower cradle, and heavy duty rocker arm shaft about four miles from our house. I will see if I can get some pictures of their system. It sells for $750 complete, rockers, shaft, and cradles. It cradles the whole shaft, not just the ends.

 

Well I do know a father and son team that have a pair of 69 Mustangs and they claim about 750hp on spray....and 7000rpm's....But I would be willing to bet there aftermarket blocks...

And if I recall right I thik the weak spot in the block is in the cam tunnel and it runs down to the crank saddle at those limits, But I think I'd sell off the 2 428 blocks and just go with the Genisis or the Pond, Or Shelby...and build it once!! Because even tho you have a spare block...when one lets go, who knows what kind of damage it'll do to not only the block but everything else too..

And a far a rocker set-ups go....I like the Erson's....I think there getting ready to go up $100 in price...But I still think Barry R can get em for the $699 price..well he could as of about a week ago.. JMO...