Oh And Bobby...my neighbor buys the Track sunoco either 110 or 116 depending on the price for the month..so I tap in a 5 gallon jug from him at $30 for 5 gallons...But I only drive the truck probably 100 miles a month to the Star City Cruise in and back home unless the wife wants to go dancing...that night..and its on the way home.... But I aquired another contact that I've know for years and it just came to me a few weeks ago...I ran Av Gas in the Altered...and my neighbor has a flight line "srip" and 4 planes that he owns here in the hills...that said it might be cheaper for me to mix the Pump swill with the avgas..and try and run it that way ...So we'll try it...

RJ

 

id have to believe the double hump heads wont make it past 500 hp with ANY N/A combo. i think it would take SB2.2's to make 740hp N/A, and i think with 350ci you would need to turn it about 8500rpms to get that.

 

Speaking of 750HP.. when I picked up the 390 tonight John started to shoot the **** with me and explained a Mitsubishi block next to mine was about the same weight LOL .. had a cast block, inline 4 and it had a crazy looking girdle on it. All cast iron.. 3k in the rotating assembly before sending the slugs out for top/side coatings.. expecting 7 bens of payoff before a 150 shot of happy juice.. ???? dunno but John's not someone I expect to blow smoke up my ***.. I'll get some picts of this thing for ****'s and giggles..

 

Guys, it would seem that many of you are victims of hype and marketing. The reason we have aluminum heads is so that Edelbrock can make money. Aluminum heads, just because they are made of aluminum, gain you nothing. Especially if you have the Edels. Edelbrock knows very well that their design gains no power. Thats why they are made from aluminum, cause casting aluminum is cheap and easy, and, most importantly, easy to machine. This lets the Edels shine after they have been ported by someone who knows how to do it. Most of the heads most guys have haven't been ported. The edels are sold as a convenience for guys who don't have a machine shop that can do the work for them. It doesn't really seem like a good way to spend money to me. If you go to any competant shop and spend the 11 or 1200$ you would need to buy new Edels on preping a C8s or D2s or whatever, you'll be ahead of the Edels in flow every time. I think you are using the wrong numbers fed into your EA3 program. I would say the computer program is only a guess. I rely on dyno tests I have seen, from operators that I trust, and on trap speed and ETs of cars running the engine. To run a certain speed and time requires a certain amount of power. Check out the times of some of the stock class guys who have to run the stock heads to be class legal. These guys have to have the stock heads and they make 450 hp easily, and sometimes more. I'm certainly not the first guy who has been able to do this by any means. It just isn't anything extraordinary. But there is now, and has been for many years, the notion pushed by many folks who sell exspensive stuff, that you can't make power without spending huge sums of money. While it is true that speed costs, it is distressing to see so much money spent in the wrong areas. While shiny new Edel heads look impressive, you'd be much better off spending your cash on end stands and beefy springs and new rod bolts. And some bowl work and new valves in those stock heads. But noone can see that stuff, so you get no bling points for it. If you want 450 hp from the stock heads you can have it. It isn't even hard. I've done it and so have many others. But we don't advertize in national magazines, and don't always use parts from folks that do.....is it any surprize that the media do storys on engines that 'need' stuff from major advertizers to make big power ? Its your money guys, you can spend it however you want. But if don't be surprized if an old truck with iron heads shows you nothing but taillights. DinosaurFan, on work's old 'puter

 

Dino...Seems to me you and some of your buds have built these engines..with stock heads.....So since I dont have away to prove to you per a REAL dyno....and you work in a shop...and you have seen the actual Dyno paper work stating these 390 with stock heads running on pump swill make all this hp....Show the class, and I shut me Pie hole!!

I mean I can only show you what is on "when I bought it" $700 program that comes alful damn close...But a Real Dyno its not!! I cant afford one and have my Ladies too!! I wish it did work the other way around... It would save alot of money!! LOL..

RJ

 

This is fun reading.

I think I still hold the top slot in pump gas FE horsepower. I had a well documented 752HP at 6200 from a 505 inch FE at the 2005 EMC contest. That's kissin' clsoe to 1.5 HP/cube. My 2006 engine was again the best of the four FE's entered with a documented 661HP from 10.5:1 compression and 434 cubes at the contest limited 6500 (it went 678 at 6700RPM). The 2007 entry - the best FE for the third straight year - made pretty much the same power while using a flat tappet cam and factory based bore, stroke and rod journal dimensions.

The factory headed 750 HP SBC is a myth. Elvis couldn't do it. The mild Hot Rod 390 with the Ed heads did not do it either - the 450HP number was fudged for the book. Simply could not happen with that combination. Jay's testing showed the out of the box Ed's to be maybe 10HP better than the factory CJs. Those were among the best of the factory iron. If you're doing the work yourself you can port the iron stuff, hang bigger valves, and get your numbers. If you're paying somebody else you'll be dollars ahead buyin' the Eds. You can take them further from there if you desire. Jay's Car Craft motor had shined up heads.

OE 427MRs with a good valve job are 246 @ .600
Out of the box Eds are 254@ .700
My best CNC Eds are only in the 330 range @ .700.
My BT CNC stuff runs in the 360s @ .700
The BT heads have been dyno'd at over 100HP better than the CNC Eds! Not the same engine - but the same cubes, cam, carb, intake - low tension rings and an electric water pump added something (+/- 30???). There is more to this than just flow numbers!

 

Well thanks Barry for clearing that up...I knew I was close to the actual flow numbers on the stock heads...and used some references from others such as JB's posts in the other forum... But ya learn something everyday...and I have yet to run across a stock factory Iron headed 390 putting out 450hp.....

But like I said...Maybe someone was gonna show me a good dyno of one doing so?? And as always I respect your opinions....you've been there and done that and you have documents and Mag articles up the **** to prove it... and the EMC...

Russ

 

Now this man knows what he is talking about.

 

I agree that Barry knows what he is talking about. He is greatly appreciated in my mind. Anyway, I want to make a point about these performance companies. From the numbers that the eddies flow compared to the BT heads do not surprise me for one reason: The company making the blue thunder heads are obviously more concentrated on the engines they go on compared to eddelbrock. Some times it seems apparent to me that mainstream companies such as holley or eddybrock have such a vast selection of chevy parts they make compared to FEs, or even the 385s for that matter, and spend a hell of a lot more time on Chevys, that they just make these big block Ford heads to quiet down the voices of the few people who have these less common engines. I'm not saying anything bad about the companies, I just wish the people had more options for these engines to level the playing field a little. I mean, it almost seems like they are a little biased, I mean Vic Eddelbrock only has chevys. How come they can't have others things once. Sorry for the babbling, just needed to blow off some steam.

Aaron

 

Do the words "CHEAP & LAZY" ring a bell ?

 

Guys;

I think you are forgetting that Vic's daughter runs Ford Mustangs. Also many have written on how poor the Edelbrock rpm head is. This is just not true. Out of the box the Edelbrock head will outflow all the stock FE Ford heads except for the high rise, tunnel port and sohc. True they will not flow with the BT heads, stock or modified, but they are good heads. As Barry wrote, they are worth about 10 hp more than cj/scj heads. I agree, that Edelbrock could have made their rpm heads flow better, but I am just thankful that they made some very good aluminum heads for our FE's. With a professional port job, the Edelbrock heads will flow over 300-330 cfm on the intakes.

 

I remember hearing that Edelbrock was going to revise/redo their FE heads to more of a Victor race style head to better suit the Victor intake. And BT supposedly had a race only type of casting in the works. Barry anything on those or are they still rumors?? FWIW I read a few months ago about the new Edelbrock Chevy 409 heads they just came out with. Not being a Chevy guy I never knew the 409/384 blocks were a 74* design vs the more common 90* V8. And that the chamber was below the heads deck with no chamber on the heads themselves. So hopefully there are some happy 409 guys out there now. Face it if Old Vic never came out with the aluminum RPM FE heads we'd all be paying thru the nose for old used up iron heads. Or Jim Dove might be getting a few more calls??

 

Well the Max effort CNC port 390/428 Ed Heads will flow up to 330cfm intake, But KC gets about 370 to 380cfm out of the 427 Ed heads on a CNC Max effort port.. So Scoot is getting right around there in his 511 Shelby build at 700+hp.....

And "G" them 348/409 heads are funny looking anyway!!! LOL...

 

Yep they are. LOL and your right it's 348 not 384. Shows how much I know about em. LOL....

 

Yep;

The 390/428 heads come with the 2.09 intake and 1.66 exhaust. You can buy the bare heads and install the 2.19 or even the 2.25 intakes along with the 1.75 exhausts. On the stock 428 bore of 4.13 the largest valve sizes for the Edelbrock heads, is 2.19 intake and 1.710 exhaust. This is per Keith Kraft, and he has done a lot of them. The difference between the Edelbrock 427 head and the Edelbrock 390/428 head is the chambers. 427 is 76 cc and the 390/428 is 72 cc. Both heads will take the same size valves.
I don't know if Scoot is using the 72 or 76 cc heads, but with his large bore he can use the 2.25 intake valves and large exhaust valves, which would then explain his great 370 cfm intake numbers. We are not going to get anything near that on a 390 or 428 using the 2.09 intake and 1.66 exhaust valves.