By the way, Russ, thanks for mentioning the port matching, I fully agree, that is critical, and releases a lot of flow. Of course, if they cant be matched exactly, it is better to have the head ports bigger than the intake, even the CJ engines were that way.

 

As long as they are for a truck, and have vertical exhaust pattern. Then yes, the C4s will work.

 

No problem Wildwes;

Unless some people are trying to be funny, those who know will tell you that it is possible to make a 390 put out 450 hp normally aspirated, but Bill Gates would have to take out a loan. It is not going to happen with stock untouched 390 heads.
Most FE headers have a vertical two bolt pattern which should fit your heads. Make sure the application is correct.
Good luck

Maxtor

 

Ford FE Buildup ? Carcraft.com Car Craft Magazine Forum

Wes copy and paste my run above.....and read it good...alot to be be learned in a short time...I guess once again my last post didnt go thru?? Oh well... And yes the Truck heddmans will bolt right up to your truck...with the C$'s ..as I mentioned in the first post..thats what I run and have for 30+ years.... Copy up above from http thru to html and do some reading...Please..

RJ

 

Correct me if I'm wrong but are there not some truck headers made for the later raised port mid 66-C6,C7,C8,D2 heads? That would be a problem I'd think being the mid 66 and up head ex ports are raised a good .250 over the C4 lowrisers. So WW be aware of that possibility besides bolt patterns. Hopefully someone can confirm or deny the fact.....

 

glenn they headers for they later heads I have seen are slotted...open hole ontop and slotted on the bottom..

 

You beat me to the punch. Although the bolt pattern is in the same place on the exhaust flange of the head, the port is not in the same place between the bolts. For example, the C8's that came on my 390 will fit truck headers just fine, but if you bolt on a pair of Ebocks the exhaust port is either higher or lower, I honestly don't remember which, but I think it's higher. It is off by enough (.250 sounds reasonable) that it is difficult, or maybe in some cases impossible, to adjust the header up or down enough to line it up with the port. I can't tell you which heads have this issue, but I know it exists.

So from my viewpoint, no, a vertical bolt pattern on the head does not guarantee your headers will fit.

Secondly, (not bashing here, just stating the facts as they relate to me) I have a 511ci engine, it has the best of everything, 12.05:1 compression, 2.25 titanium valves, 304-310 roller cam at .700 lift, CNC ported Ebock heads, port matched Victor manifold, custom built 1050 dominator carb, windage tray, big tube headers and a good ignition system. Performance numbers from this engine would support the claim that it makes around 700 sea-level ponies in the 6500-7000rpm range. I would love to get 750, but I would have to raise the compression even more, and add more cam. My engine is anything BUT streetable already. So it sounds a little off when I hear you say you had a mild 350 making 750hp. That is a 2.14 hp per cubic inch engine. By comparison, I think nascar engines run around 2.2 hp/ci, and pro-stockers only run about 2.6. One of the things you said that just about guarantees there is a fly in the ointment is that you had hydraulic rollers. I don't believe hyd rollers are capable of the rpm it would take to put a 350 chev into the 750 range.

Please don't get offended, as I am in no way trying to provoke you, or casting any doubt on your honesty. In fact, as shown in the first paragraph, I am providing you with information you need. I am only stating that the numbers you provided, or that were provided to you, seem to be flawed.

Good luck with your build.

-Scouder

 

Well, I can't promise you that the dyno was correct, but that is what it read. However, I do know that was the most powerful truck I ever drove, it has actually broke one of the trailing arms two different times from the torque. It originally had a solid lifter cam in it, and with it it would turn around 7200, once I put the hydraulic roller in it it would turn around 8000. The heads had been modified, they were not as-stock heads, but they were double hump heads that had been modified. At any rate, thanks for answering my question on the headers, I believe I'll go with the C4 heads, I know a guy that has a pair and can do all of the mods to make them the same as the DSC Powerflo heads, but for considerably less money. They may still not quite be the equal of the edelbrock heads, but I still prefer cast iron heads.
And I apologize for opening up this can of worms everybody, but at least we've had a good discussion. lol.

 

From Bob Sprowl's web-site:

Port Photos

It's a good idea to verify the fit. I have it stuck in my brain that Shoe cited problems with getting Hooker headers to fit the later port configuration.

All I know for sure is that I better do a thorough job of mocking up the J-Y headers I brought home. As soon as I get the idea I need one specific part, somebody does something different.

Stan Weiss...yeah, I have that cached on my old hard drive. Now I know what to search for. LOL Thanks Russ!

wildwes: "can-o-worms"? LMAO That's one good learning opportunity for me!
These ol' boys have forgot more than I'll ever learn. They just seem to shake the CRS out of each other when the topic gets going.

 

Thank you very much. Well demonstrated.

-Scouder

 

Wes, usually hydro rollers give less rpm, not more. I've seen those trailing arms broken by stock engines, I wouldn't be impressed about that. I've also made a few bucks welding steel plates along the channels of those rails to make a box shape....we called them 'Stanley plates' in my area, after the guy who first bent up a set of trailing arms and needed the repair. At least he was the first guy whom I saw with them bent. Later I learned that it was a common occurance. Chevy didn't build the trailing arms beefy enough in the first place. Now about those camel heads........camel heads are the prefered and legal head in some certain kinds of racing. But there are much much better flowing iron heads available. Heads like 'Iron Eagle' and others which I don't remember the names of, from Dart ( World Products Casting ) and other manufacturers as well. The aftermarket heads flow a BUNCH more than the stockers, but they aren't leagal in many racing classes. So there has sprung up an whole industry of places who will, for a tidy profit, cut off the camel shape ends and casting numbers from the stock heads and weld them onto the right places on the race heads. They cover their tracks VERY well. Is it cheating, well sure. But if you want to win, and you have enough money, you can do it. Now what do you suppose happens to all of those parts.......they have to end up somewhere. Now, on the stroke for this engine, did you measure it ? Plenty of race car guys have cheated and run a 3.75 crank or a 3.875 crank when the rules stated 3.5. The guy you dealt with may have been honest, but where did HE get the stuff ? Someone could have been blowing smoke up his shorts. DF

 

heres part 2, some of you have been reading too many magazines that badmouth the FE. The FEs stock cylinderheads are just fine, and are very able. I'm thinking many of you might not know Edelbrocks dirty little secret. Heres how it is- the Edels that are sold for the FE right now are actually the 3rd revision of that design. The first two made less power than factory C8AE-H heads. and if you remember, that was the bottom of the performance barrel. The latest heads from Edel can match the C8AE-H performance, but you don't gain anything. If you carefully read the articles where they are used, you'll find them recommended as a easy option to rebuilding the FE heads. Now if you don't have a machine shop that can do it, maybe thats a good thing. But they are in NO WAY better or cheaper. Keep in mind, this doesn't mean the Edels are bad. It means the stock heads are that good. Now if you are going to have Keith C or Jim K or somebody else exspensive port them, then the Edels will do fine. But for 90% of us, it is money you don't have to spend. For the price of a new pair of Edels, I can have your iron heads ready to go and beat the Edels everytime. Check out the flow of new Edels out of the box, and check out the flow of some of the early factory heads. Now, just why would you want to buy the new Edels ? That is an awful lot of money just to save a few pounds. DF

 

Heres part 3, I guess I'm directing it to Max and Russ again. If you think the factory iron heads are not up to the job, you are misinformed. My personal guess is that y'all have been reading to many magazines. But, if we remember that the Edel heads gain you nothing without heavy porting, lets look at acouple of magazine engines. Back in '03, hotrod mag did a 390 build to use in a pickup for parts chaser duty. it was a 390, flattop pistons that gave 9.6 to 1, and it had a milquetoast hydro roller cam. With unported Edels and an RPM intake, it gave out 450 hp and 460 lbs-ft of torque. There was another engine build at MuscleStangs and fast Fords, they had a 427 inch windsor stroker against a 421 inch 390, .060 over with a 428 crank in it. Both had aluminum heads and similar sized flat hydro cams. The 'grizzled old man' as they called the FE, made 505 hp and 495 torque. The young wipper snapper, as they called the windsor stroker, couldn't break 500 hp. Knowing that you can make this kind of power on unported Edels, and knowing that unported Edels are no better than stock, why is the idea of a 450 hp 390 with iron heads such a surprize ? I think the magazines usually use Edel stuff because they are a such a big advertizer. But there are other choices out there. I like ported iron heads 'cause they are sturdy and they don't bend. There was a fellow who raced a 428CJ and went enough faster after from changing from an Edel RPM to a Blue Thunder that he calculated that he gained 35 hp. But BT doesn't advertize in most of those mags, and Edel does, big time. Your local shop that could prep your iron heads doesn't either. So whose stuff do you think the mags will use in their builds ? DF

 

Well;

Each person is welcome to their opinion. If you are talking about the C8AE-H standard head that comes with 2.02 intake and 1.55 exhaust valves, then I don't know what I can say to you. I guess you think that this head out flows the C6AE-E scj head, and the medium riser heads also.
Probably outflows the tunnelport and sohc head.
Anyway,, enjoy your heads and have fun with your FE.

 

On the header fitment, you'll have to measure and double check everything. On the headers in my 4wd, the openings were in the right place, but they were too small. I welded around the outside of the tubes and ground the opening larger. On my 2wd, the tubes were too high AND too small. I did the weld and grind thing again and slotted the bolt holes to get the alignment right.

Now, yeah, you can do 450 hp on the stock iron heads. But where did some of you get this 'all bone stock parts' or low octane swill idea ? The solid cam needed to do this will require end stands and beefy springs. You'll also need new rockers and pushrods. The pistons I'd recommend are flattops, but they aren't quite stock. And it takes carefull assembly and thought first. there is some extra machining needed. And the 'low octane swill' ? I am totally mistified as to why anyone would build a pump gas engine when E85 is available. 105 octane and cheaper than racing gasoline, even cheaper than regular in most places. Bigger jets and healthy ignition and you are ready to go. I'll try to drop a recipe on y'all later tonight. DinosaurFan, on work's old puter