Windsor Stroker
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Junior User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 78
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From: Chandler United States
Windsor Stroker
I need some opinions for building a 393 stroker 351 windsor block bored .030 over and still be able to run pump gas < 10 Compression? I have been talking to a few of the stroker kit guys and basd on there numbers my compression would be like 14 to 1 with 60 cc heads. thats with there flat top pistons. I even worked it out with the 15 cc dish pistons and its still like 12 to 1 I havent been able to find any heads that fit a windsor that would have chambers big enough to bring that number down into the range I am looking for. I want to get good heads but I am also looking at this as a daily driver. Does anyone have any suggestions on the route I could go to accomplish my goals?? I was kinda hoping I didnt have to get custom dish pistons made up due to the extra cost.
I currently have a 79 smogger block bored .030 over a stock crank already worked and stock rods . Its all sitting till I get the right combination together. I know I cant use most of it except for the block
thanks
I currently have a 79 smogger block bored .030 over a stock crank already worked and stock rods . Its all sitting till I get the right combination together. I know I cant use most of it except for the block
thanks
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 2,070
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From: Boise, Idaho
Windsor Stroker
All you need for a 393 stroker is the crankshaft. The pistons are standard 302 pistons. Use the stock 351 rods.
The E6SE 5.0 heads (found on 86 Mustangs and most non-truck, non-HO application after 85, i.e. Lincolns and Mercs) have 68cc chambers and are quench/swirl designs. The valves are smallish so it depends on what your intention is with this engine. The small valves would be ok for a low rpm application. You could use the flat-topped no-valve-relief pistons with this head with a mild cam.
Watch out because the 393 stroke (3.85") might leave your piston slightly down in the hole. I've heard of a slightly taller compression height 302 piston that fixes this potential problem.
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 423
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From: Oklahoma
Windsor Stroker
Keith Black #364 pistons have a 22cc dish and, in a 393 stroker, would have (advertised) compression of 9.9:1 with 60cc heads, 9.5:1 with 64cc heads and 9.1:1 compression with 68cc heads. www.kb-silvolite.com
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Junior User
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Chandler United States
Windsor Stroker
I have to say you guys rock. I really appreciate the excellent replies . I think I can get a plan going with that information.
This Forum has been the best tool in my toolbox. I have saved alot of time not re-inventing the wheel.
Thanks again
This Forum has been the best tool in my toolbox. I have saved alot of time not re-inventing the wheel.
Thanks again
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Junior User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 78
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From: Chandler United States
Windsor Stroker
I went to the KB site and checked out the 22 cc dish pistons. One question Would these pistons leave me in the hole? pcmenton had mentioned that for the stock ones on his post
thanks
thanks
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 423
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From: Oklahoma
Windsor Stroker
Yes. Divide the stroke by 2 and add the length of the rods plus the compression height of the piston = 9.489". Deck height of a late 351W block: 9.50". At TDC, the piston will be .011" down in the hole. Combine with a typical .042" compressed head gasket thickness and you have a quench clearance of .053".
Posting Guru
Joined: Mar 2002
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From: Boise, Idaho
Windsor Stroker
Don, have your machine shop cut .010 off the tops of the block and you're in business. (Thanks to Clif for the calculation.)
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Junior User
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Chandler United States
Windsor Stroker
Thanks For the great info. I just got back from the GOODGUYS car show in Scottsdale AZ What a show anyway what if I put 2v cleveland heads on (Clever) I know they require alittle modification , but arent they like about 70 cc chambers ? I think the runner size is bigger than a windsor and I know the intake valve is like about 2.06? not sure what the exhaust is but would that be a good combination? I am shooting for using the 302 pistons for cost. My thinking is that I could get better flow out of the cleveland heads especially if they are worked alittle. I would rather dump more money into the top end if I can make the bottom end work with the stock size rods and pistons If you know where the tech information is on the mods I need I would appreciate it
thanks
thanks
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Senior User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 423
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From: Oklahoma
Windsor Stroker
The Cleveland head requires a different crown piston, which unfortunately, is not readily available in the proper compression height for the 393 setup. Typical 2V Cleveland heads (same as 351M and 400) have chambers more like 76-78cc with 2.06"/1.62" valves; the 4V models run 66-68cc but have ports nearly too big for good response on the street. By the time you get custom pistons, modify the heads and block and purchase the special intake manifold and pushrods needed, you'll have more money and time wrapped up than you'll want to think about and still not be finished.
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Junior User
Joined: Jul 2002
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From: Chandler United States
Windsor Stroker
[updated:LAST EDITED ON 18-Nov-02 AT 00:05 AM (EST)]Using the KB calculator I used
76cc Chamber
0 Piston deck
.039 Gasket?? is that correct?
4.030 Gasket bore?
4.030 Cylinder bore
.010 Deck Clearance
3.85 Stroke
the result was a 10.334 compression ratio Which is still alittle high but I used a .010 deck highth which is probably alittle low anyway I think you said it may be around .015
Besides that
You are saying I would need special intake and pushrods? I couldnt use a 351 c intake ?
Would I be able to use a roller cam set up ? I am only questioning you so I may understand it better. thanks for your help
76cc Chamber
0 Piston deck
.039 Gasket?? is that correct?
4.030 Gasket bore?
4.030 Cylinder bore
.010 Deck Clearance
3.85 Stroke
the result was a 10.334 compression ratio Which is still alittle high but I used a .010 deck highth which is probably alittle low anyway I think you said it may be around .015
Besides that
You are saying I would need special intake and pushrods? I couldnt use a 351 c intake ?
Would I be able to use a roller cam set up ? I am only questioning you so I may understand it better. thanks for your help
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 423
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From: Oklahoma
Windsor Stroker
Did you include piston dome volume? FelPro smallblock Ford head gaskets (recommended) have a compressed thickness of .042" and a bore diameter of 4.10". You can't use the 351C intake because the 351W block is .300" taller (9.20" vs. 9.50") and therefore wider across the lifter valley. Price Motorsports has adapter plates to use an 351C intake on the 351 Clevor, but you have to use have to figure out how to plumb a water return and thermostat as the 351C intake doesn't have one. The price of the adapter plates plus an aftermarket intake will be just as much if not more than the custom intake. The B&A/Burk Performance intake from DSC Motorsports does have a standard 351W thermostat location but requires the heads to be drilled for the matching water passage. Yes, a roller cam setup could be used as you're going to have to have custom pushrods anyway, but if you are going to do that, you might also want to look at machining the heads for roller-pivot adjustable rockers and pushrod guide plates as well to avoid valvetrain binding problems since typical performance roller cams have a much more radical profile than flat tappet cams.
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Junior User
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 78
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From: Chandler United States
Windsor Stroker
With all of that, I think I will just go with a stroker crank stock rods and dish pistons. I spoke with zimmerman racing and he told me he would put it all together for me and balance it out . I asked him about the compression problem and he told me he would work it all out. I asked him what heads I should get and he told me to get something like the edelbrock aluminums, he told me he would get it to 10 compression and that would be fine with the aluminum heads. Again thanks for all the info I can actually start shopping for parts now
Senior User
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 423
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From: Oklahoma
Windsor Stroker
Yes, definitely adhere to the KISS principle here. (No insult intended.) One other thing, by using the Edelbrock aluminum heads with an aluminum intake, aluminum water pump and headers, your 393 stroker will only weigh about 10-15 lbs more than a stock 302. 10:1 compression is not a problem with aluminum heads either.
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