Well...sounds like we are onto something at least...

Glad I could help steer you at least in a possible starting point...once you get that RAS pre-loaded properly...we can take a look at your WD setup to make sure that is set up right for you too...we'll get there...one step at a time though!

Good luck...and make him do it right!

Let us know when you have some info.

joe.

 

I took the X back to the shop yesterday and had him tighten the springs with the axle at full drop to a little over 2 mm gap in the coils. We then measured from the floor to the middle of the wheel well at 40.5" when the X was back on the ground. I just got done hooking up the trailer and it still drops 2 full inches. I Called David at RAS and explained the situation. He was familiar with the shop and the owner who performed the install and said that everything he did sounds correct and we verified that the correct RAS was used. He did not have an explanation for what is happening. The only thing that we could think of is that the X is at a little bit of an angle, meaning the left side is lower than the right, when loading due to the slope of my driveway and parking pad. He suggested that I take it to level ground and then unhook and reload to see if I encounter the same results. Is it possible that my rear springs are completely worn out and the RAS cannot compensate? Does anybody have any other ideas at this point? I am supposed to call David at Roadmaster on Monday and report back. Thanks.

 

ocboat,


Okay...this sounds like the RAS is now at least correctly pre-tensioned.

What type of WD hitch are you using again? I'd like to know what weight the bars are and what your tongue weight is.

I have an 1100-1200# tongue (depends on fresh water or not) and have 1400# WD bars on my hitch. I typically engage the WD with the trailer tongue jack DOWN (meaning that not much of the tongue weight is actually ON the Ex at that point)...after the WD is engaged to where it will eventually end up...I raise the tongue jack or lower the trailer onto the Ex and thus load up the WD bars. I find it much easier on me and the equipment to do it this way...BUT by doing it his way I never really FULLY drop all that tongue load on the rear of the Ex either...because as I do crank on the tongue jack...the nature of lowering the trailer onto the Ex is loading up the WD bars and shifting the load some...

So first let me know what your WD equipment is.

Next...do you have UNHITCHED height measurements for the FRONT wheel wells too like you do for the rear?

I ask that because when you do apply your WD...do you get your front fender height to RETURN to the UNHITCHED height?...that is critical...because that tells you that you are shifted the weight that is unloaded thru the tongue BACK to the front axle...i.e. the goal of the WD hitch...

Does that make sense so far?...we may be simply into a tweaking of your WD hitch settings at this point...

Hope this helps...and glad you got the RAS loaded properly...now at least you have the spring capacity of the RAS working in conjunction WITH your Ex leaf springs...

joe.

 

Thanks Joe, I really appreciate the help. I have a Draw-Tite WD hitch with 750lb bars and Reese dual cam sway control. I will measure the front wheel well height before and after adding the trailer tomorrow. I will also get to some scales and get the actual weights for everything this weekend. I used this set-up on my Nissan Titan and had no problems except that the Titan was just a little light for the trailer and it felt like the trailer was pushing the truck quite a bit.

Just to clarify, the 2" drop has been when dropping the tongue on the hitch without the WD bars engaged. I am sure that it will raise up some when the bars are loaded but I just thought that the RAS would prevent that much of a drop alone.

David

 

David
i have been kind of following along here, because i intend on installing the ras...

i was wondering how much the X droped with the tongue weight on in before installing the ras???

another thing i was wondering, how much lift if any with no load did the ras add to the X???

i am not sure the 2" is all that excessive... how much travel is there before the bump stop touches both empty and with the tongue load, and are both sides equal...

i am not sure if any of this matters even but mine with with no mods except the helwig and the full tongue load (1,000/1,100) as dead weight will drop mine a lot more than two inches, although i never measured it that way...

once i add the WD spring load the X is back to level...

 

[QUOTE=jjbirish]

another thing i was wondering, how much lift if any with no load did the ras add to the X???

QUOTE]

I'll just jump in for a sec. If properly installed the RAS will not add any lift whatsoever to a vehicle. It is a load support system only. It should not even engage until a downward force / load is placed on the rear suspension of the vehicle which exceeds said vehicles normal dry weight. Hope that helps.

 

David,


I do think that what you are getting into now is normal. A 2" drop when you first drop the tongue on before engagaing the WD bars is not bad. Plus the RAS as pointed out is more of a supplemental system to the leaf springs. Where the RAS shines is in that EXACT light...SUPPLEMENTAL. When the tongue load pushes on the rear of the Ex as you are hitting the expansion joints and creating those dynamic rolling waves...the RAS resists those deeper deflections that the OEM springs would have gone thru...so as the load increases...the RAS assists.

So I think you have the RAS optimized now...which is great...you should certainly notice the difference in the towing dynamics more than in the static loading situation you are currently in...but for really really heavy tongues...you'd notice that here too.

You mention you may go to a scale...which is GREAT!

With three different weights...you can calculate EVERYTHING you need.

Just make sure that the Ex and TT are loaded as you would for camping to ensure proper WD setup...people, gear, fuel, fire wood, water in tank, etc...

Get individual axle weights for each of these weights.

1) Ex UNHITCHED. (this is your baseline front weight you are attempting to return TO after WD is applied)
2) Ex HITCHED but WD NOT applied (this one will give you an indication of how much you have unloaded that front axle and gives you tongue weight)
3) Ex HITCHED but WD ENGAGED (this one should show that the Ex front axle now ='s the unhitched Ex front axle...if not adjust your WD links up or down)

With those weights we can figure everything we need.

Prior to going to a scale though you can get 'close' simply using a tape measure. Measure the Ex's wheel wells in an unhitched state. Again the goal is to return the FRONT wheel well to the unhitched state after WD is applied. So now hitch up and pull your normal WD setting. Remeasure the front height...if the front is HIGHER than before...engage more WD. If the front is LOWER than before (unlikely)....reduce some WD.

I mentioned that I normally don't drop all the tongue on my Ex and use the tongue jack to simply lower the trailer and latch the coupler than I actually lower the tongue jack to raise up the rear of the Ex to make hitching easier for WD engagment...do you do the same?...with the DC...it is important to do this as those snap up brackets when they go thru the arc of engagement can easily bend the cam end keeper plates (thin gold metal)...

Good luck...sounds like with the exception of dialing in the WD settings...you are on your way...I do think you will notice a much more solid Ex as you roll down the road towing.

Also to clarify something...the RAS doesn't per say 'lift' the Ex...but it does provide spring capacity. If your leaf springs have sagged over time due to age, etc...when you install the RAS...and you hang the rear axle and pre-tension the RAS in that position...you are basically renewing your leaf springs if you will...so you 'may' experience some higher unhitched height with that renewed spring capacity...in essence providing a slight lift...in my case about 1.25" immediately after installing the RAS...but IMO the real benefit to the RAS is in that DYNAMIC situation when the tongue is pushing down as you tow and the RAS resists that deflection so much better than the OEM springs!

joe.

 

I wasn't able to make it to the scales but I did take the trailer to level ground and experiment with different settings of the WD bars. My front wheel wells measured 37" unloaded and 38.25" when the tongue was dropped on the hitch. I was able to get it back to 37.25" with the WD bars engaged so I figured that was pretty close. I was also able to get the back within .25" from unloaded to loaded at that same setting.

jjbirish, I did not measure the drop before I had the RAS installed. I also forgot to measure the distance to the bump stops with the trailer hitched. The RAS did raise the back end of my X by about 1.25" but it does have the original springs and almost 100,000 miles.

I wish I would have measured everything before I had the RAS installed since that would be a good indicator of how well it is helping. I guess I just have to assume that it is doing its' job, and, on a good note, it does seem to tow very well. In fact, it does not wander as much with the trailer attached as it does unloaded. Thanks again everyone for all of your help.

David

 

I ordered the RAS today - should be here in 7-10.

I can't wait to see how it does.

 

If your WD hitch is set up properly, then then the front should drop the same as the rear as measured at the wheel wells. If the rear settles more than the front, then you need to hook on the next lower link, if it settles less than the front, then you need to hook on the next higher link. The purpose off the WD hitch is to maintain the unloaded vehicle center with MAYBE slightly more load towards the rear.

Also make sure the trailer is level by adjusting the receiver up or down as needed.

It sounds to me like you have a little much on the rear. Even with the kit, I would think the front and rear should drop and inch or 2.

 

Thanks for the help. I've managed to get the drop pretty even between the front and rear with some experimentation with the WD bars.

 

Mine drops an 1" in the back with the trailer hooked up and weight dist. engaged. and the front is the same hieght before and after. it sounds like you now have it setup properly!

Good luck!

 

well i decided to order the Roadmaster system too. I can't wait for it to get here, I have high hopes for it.

I'd like the Hellwig rear sway bar, but haven't ordered that yet. I may do the roadmaster system first and try it without the sway bar just to see.

Anyway I got a sweet deal on eBay..... $80 + $20 shipping from CT to MI. He's got several more on auction still.

 

HOLY COW $100 for the RAS you did GREAT!!!

Mark Moore will be the first we know of that tries the RAS BEFORE the Hellwig...I have high hopes that the RAS will be a single item that improves much about the Ex!...we'll see.

Good luck with the RAS...it has done wonders for my towing characteristics on my Ex...THANKFULLY I have NO complaints and I roll down the road at 17,000#'s combined with the Ex and can tow 12+ hour days and NOT be mentally exhausted from the experience...a PLEASURE to tow with this setup...those that are fighting an ill handling Ex...need to try the RAS...especially at $100!!!

Please report back on your experiences...and if you have any questions on the install...I've posted photos of my install...

BTW...have you considered joining us in Gatlinburg in July for the Ex/SD rally?...

joe.

 

I'll also let you know the the Ras handles without the Hellwig although I never towed without the RAS. I leave tomorrow on a 500 mile round trip with our 7,500# travel trailer. I'll report back when I return home next weekend.

Now I just need to get rid of the sick feeling I have after spending $200.00 more for my RAS.