I knew if I left this thread alone, it would result in an argument

Next time if you want real answers, leave out the "460" - the 460 people who've defended their decision for the past 20 years have constantly had to argue the benefits over a diesel, or (gasp!) a 400.

Come on guys, give me a break.

If you have a 460 that in the SAME TRUCK (unladen weight does mean something - and I bet that pre-'99 does weigh less than the SD) outperforms a V10, well, you must have gotten one with a police package - or the catalytic converter is gone or gutted.

Or someone redid the ignition timing.

Because at the end of it's life, the 460 was a turd. Ask anyone. Well, except for the few diehard (stock) 460 fans. I know, a 460 can be an animal if worked on. But stock? Come on.

And, if you're getting better MPGs with a 460, something is DEFINITELY wrong with the V10. I've posted many times here that I average 16 on the highway, with 1500lbs in the bed. Last trip, I got over 17.

If you're stuck at 11 on the highway with a 2-valve and 3.73's, YOU HAVE SOMETHING WRONG.

 

Arguement? LOL, just internet chatter is all

Old 460 in my F250 had 135K on it and lost a rod cap somehow, new 460 is a complete long block i bought for it and as stock as stock can be, believe me, i dont waste money fixing up work trucks that get used/beat daily. And so far, with a worn out 460, and now a brand new 460, it's definately better in all aspects. both trucks i pictured weight the same give/take a few hundred pounds. Granted the red truck needs the ladder rack and tools to make up for lower inital weight, but as they sit they're close. and heck, the red truck has the rack hanging n the breeze and still gets better milage LOL!!

Is something wrong with my V10?? i dunno, but i've never been as impressed with it as many of the guys on here have been, but maybe i have higher expectations..seems to have been alot of hype and no delievery with it, yes it works and does a good job, but my V10 is in no way "brag worthy" like i see soo many guys on here doing with their 10 cylinder grocery getter that tows once in a great while LOL!!

 

I'll say it again - if you're getting 11 miles to the gallon on the highway (if you're not doing 90), something is wrong.

As for grocery getters, don't make that assumption

 

I took 2 john boats on my 20' open trailer to drop off when we towed over to pick up a 57' chebbie, towing the boats out west with no wind so to speak of, I averages 9mpg running 65-70mph. On the way back with the chebbie on my back running 70-75mph i got 10-11mpg, thought that was kinda funny LOL!! twice the weight, more speed, and it got better. but with all my trucks they all seem to stay right around the same mpg loaded/unloaded, even my old F150 work truck with the 302, ladder rack/plow brackets and such NEVER went over 10mpg...that was just the truck itself, or when i had my drag car on the trailer towing somewhere...10mpg like a zerox machine LOL!!! Plowing with all these trucks, I think the best average i've ever gotten when i kept track once to compare to some diesels...6mpg was the best i ever got, but running average is 2-4mpg, depending on snow load, how much material we spread, etc...

Grocery getters...I'm basing that rib on what i see in about every place i ever go, these great big trucks the guys have zero use for other than it being cool heck, my uncle is even guilty, works for the sheriffs dept. 10 minutes from here, then sits at home..no towing, no hauling, no nothing, but he had to have the new 2500Duramax cuz diesels are better right?? LMFAO!!! not to mention the guys i know through various associations, clubs, boards, etc....most of the suits like driving the 2500/250-3500/350 series trucks and they HAVE to be 4 wheel drive....some have a 18-20' ski boat they need to tow a few times a month to the lake/river, other's have no trailer at all and have a bed cover installed (lots of heavy hauling going on there i tell ya....

just my opinion, and it goes back to another thread we had about guys buying big trucks for the uggg uggg factor that "i am man, give me big truck" but never had, never will have any true use for what the truck is/was designed to do, but like to get on here and talk the talk after they finished reading the latest truck trend or whatever truck magazine is popular...my cousin is that way and that's why uncle got this waste of a truck...he'll quote numbers/truck facts to you all day long, but common sense and reality, he's clueless, which reminds me soo much of forum chatter...lots of hear say, but nobody has ever personally done half of what they like to think they're the authority on. FACT.

 

IHI, I think your foot is dictating your MPGs

Just like mine

 

I know what you're talking about Art. I went mudding/snowing and hill climbing today... had my foot in it for the better part of four hours.... my gas tank must have a hole in it!

 

dyno numbers at the rear wheels, I only wish they showed the torque!

98' F350 W/460
http://www.jetchip.com/pdf/dyno/Ford...60%2089822.pdf

00' F250 W/V10
http://www.jetchip.com/pdf/dyno/Ford...10%2089915.pdf

These are rear wheel numbers from the last year the 460 was avalible, fact is even a 00' 2V V10 shows 56 HP MORE hp. Thats 33% more than the 460 delivered. You can say what ever you want but numbers to the ground don't lie. I only wish they had the torque. I gues anyone who wants to figure torque can just use the age old formula - HP = (TQ*RPM)/5252 or rewrote for TQ is TQ = (HP*5252)/RPM. Feel free to do your own calcs. I'll do them when I get time.

 

What transmission was in each truck? stick or auto?

Alot of guys do not understand how wheel dyno's work, none of them can rate HP, none of them-period. hp is figured by a computer calculation based on the amount of torque that is needed to do X amount of work, so EVERY hp number you see is math calculated, just the bare facts there folks, call a shop and ask. Also another thing that will play into tainting numbers is weather or not the dyno is electrically load controlled, or uses weight/inertia to get a reading, the electrically controlled units are much more acurate, but still, it's calculations at best.

Gearing/drivetrain parts also make s huge difference too since the way the chasis dyno sees the work being done, more effecient combination post more numbers, and LIE.

Here's my junk testing all the who-plah out:



This particular shop owner and i were having beverages after we got done, we were in route to a race track, it was raining cats and dogs, so buddies and i decided to stop in and have some fun. But after we made 3 pulls and the numbers came up, the owner, 3 mechanics, and 2 other freinds of the owner were crowded around the computer screen, shaking theri head...."what in the heck do you got in that thing?" At that time is was just a pump gas 388 that i was running 10.90's with on a good air day through the mufflers in streete form. Owner looked at me and said, wow, that thing is putting down diesel tq numbers, and was all excited about it. Soon as he said that we went over and looked at the puter, his one mechanic was already doing calculations, and told us, if you do the math, you engine is making almost 800ftlbs of tq, and 585hp.....buddies and i all started laughing, and thod him there aint no way, the engine based on car weight, mph, and et is around 550hp/500tq at best.

But like i said, we got to shooting the breeze after the pulls, and all their excitement, and he said, ya know, what you guys are telling me about these dyno's makes perfect sense, we get all kinds of cars in here making impressive numbers after we tune them, and then when the owners bring them back after a trip to the race track, they're all really disappointed.

I could bore you guys with more on this, but it's pointless, I have'nt been on chasis dyno's or engine dyno's enough to know anything, esspecially when i had my big motor last yr dyno 80hp more at a different shop then the one that built it....but i guess since I have'nt done anything of this crap personally, never been around engines, putting said engines in this thread to work daily, never been on chasis or engine dyno's and know how they really work, maybe you guys could dig up some hot rod or truck mag articles to pull numbers and quotes from and i just might learn something here, cuz obviously doing all this personally has just made me stupid??? wow, internet wizardtry at it best LMFAO!!!!...

 

Why do you feel like you have to post your resume in every reply? Just sayin.

 

The type of dyno doesn't matter. It appears they were run on the same one. The big thing to look at is the difference between the two.

Maybe Jet used a bad dyno for the 460. That's probably it. Just disregard the real world numbers.

 

Put me on your ignore list, or skip over my posts, i'm sure somebody can copy and paste and stick how to do that on here

I'm done, you guys win LMFAO!! Numbers dont mean a thing, the sooner the general public who READS about this stuff either tries it personally and gets the real scope, the better they will understand effeicentcy as a whole. It's not about who's posting the best number, or what some math calculation says it's supposed to be putting down, numbers lie period. Dyno's weather they be chasis or engine are TUNING AIDS, that is all they are good for, comparing a mod A-B, but soo many mis informed like to think it's the absolute answer, the article readers/misinformed take everything at face value with no real intrest into the how/why, they believe what they see printed/typed and by gawd, just like here, they'll argue till the death even though guys in the know are just laughing at them for their nieveness.

I write novels trying to tell the whole story, trying to help the guys that keep their yap shut initally and take everything in to form a more informed descion that hmmm, there's more to the story than just this or that. I'm trying to get across my REAL LIFE/PERSONAL EXPERIENCES with, and help the guys that want to know/learn real life answers as opposed to all this crap these internet wizards keep trying to copy and paste like it means something, when in reality, and to the guys that have been there/still doing this know, there's alot more to it than what some writer gets a paycheck or some publisher gets a perk for writing about.

I've had fun with this, some of these guys give me a real chuckle arguing, but being clueless LOL. It's just like homeowners arguing with me about how things should be done though i've been doing this for years and how it's really done despite what HGTV showed last sunday...same principal in full effect on internet forums...wealth of good info, but you gotta sort through ALOT of BS to find it, sadly to many read a few sentences, and believe it LOL!!

Thanks for the fun guys, keep copying/pasting internet trash, and forget there is a REAL world out there that some of us live in:P

 

I'm just saying it seems less credible when you constantly try and jam your expertise, knowledge or resume down our throats at every opportunity. You started off calling me a liar essentially, my co-worker ignorant and insinuated anyone here that had an opinion different than yours is stupid. That just may be your personality, I don't know. You are coming off as a know it all. You know more than anyone that may have published numbers that conflict with yours, or any information that you don't agree with. I should thank you for gracing us with your presence and vast, awesome knowledge of the 460, dyno's and engineering. However, I am not that crass . So, not speaking for anyone else, I will just say, I agree to disagree with some of your assertions. Thanks for stopping by.

 

Yeah... don't forget that HIS world is the REAL world.

You're very welcome for the fun, I do enjoy an opposing viewpoint every now and then.

I just can't bring myself to believe your side of the story, not when I know of several others (including my own) that contradict. Why should anybody take your word over published facts and agreed upon figures? I've met people like yourself my whole life... no matter what anybody posts, you will find a way to call it B.S. unless you agree with it. You could be proven wrong, right in front of you on the street, and you'd find a reason for it to be "trash". Why should anybody take your word over published facts and agreed upon figures? I know better than to argue too much with your type.

Feel free to throw in your $.02 anytime... just don't belittle unless you're belittled first. That throws you into the "ignore what he says" category every time.

Oh yeah and remember... you ARE in the V-10 forum. Maybe you will find views closer to your own in the 385 series forum.

 

Now that the dummy is gone I will say a 460 with 3:73's in a lighter truck probably feels stronger than a 99 2v superduty with 3:73's. The 99 2v really needs the 4:30's to do what it is designed to do.

That being said, the superduty with 4:30's would outperform the 460 with 4:30's. The 460 is pathetic above 3k rpms in stock form.

 

Makes sense to me.