I need some serious advice on building my 390. It will be dropped into my 66 Tbird. I know this is a truck site, but you guys are the best resource I have found on the net for any Ford stuff. I know many of you guys are also on the FE Big Block forum, but it is much more warm and inviting here(All warm and fuzzy)! My intentions are to build a very strong street car with an occasional trip to the track. This car is definitely not a daily driver. It has MN collector plates on it, so it is a weekend racer only. So far parts collected, or are already on the car are:
Cold air induction.
Holley 750 dbl pumper.
Edelbrock Performer RPM.
Comp Cam’s Roller rocker assy with end supports, and stud kit.
Cobra Jet heads. 3 angle seats, CJ stock valves, aggressive porting and bowl cleanup.
Stock rods shotpeened, or possibly Eagle rods.
ARP bolts and cap studs.
Custom headers 1 5/8” primary 2.5” secondary, JetHot coating. Dual 2.5” exhaust.
MSD dizzy and 6A ignition with blaster coil
Felpro gaskets
HV Melling oil pump with HD drive shaft.
Windage tray with 7 quart pan.
3000 RPM stall converter
150-250hp NOS cheater plate
Electric fuel pump
3.50:1 Trac Loc. Bigger tires
Car is 4750lbs.
Lifters ?
Pistons ?
Cam and springs?
My engine builder is a buddy who is very competent with mopars and chevys, so I am trying to do the research myself to save even more bucks. I will be boring .040”. Will be shooting for zero deck height. Will have the entire rotating assy balanced. Going with some type of high buck fluid or solid damper/balancer. Perform all oil mods necessary. Trying to get 440-450hp out of it before hitting it with the bottle.

My main questions are:
1. What do I have to do to convert over to mechanical or roller lifters? Is it worth my money?
2. I am shooting for 10.3: 1 compression using Keith Black Hypertectic pistons because of the NOS. Keith Black pistons come in a 9:1 ratio. Can I get my compression up with out decking the block and milling the heads too much, or will this be an acceptable cut? Do I need to move up to a proper sized more expensive forged piston?
3. I am currently running a Comp Cam 268. Can some one recommend a cam more appropriate to my application?
4. What else have I missed? Thanks! Dan

 

As for the pistons you are gonna want to run the forged L2291 TRW pistons. With a zero deck you will be right around your desired ratio. They are about $33 a piece from summitracing so they are not very expensive. Maybe even cheaper than the KBs. The cam is definitely a little small to take advantage over the rest of your modifications. I run the Crane 343801 and am very impressed with it. I assume you are planning on running race gas with the nitrous. 10.3:1 is a little much for pump gas but could be done with a little ignition retard for the street. Sounds like a pretty nice build. Its good that you are going to modify the oiling system. Its cheap, easy and is definitely going to be needed spinning high RPMs.

 

Thanks for responding Ratsmoker. I was hoping you would throw in your two cents worth. Do you or anyone else have any words of wisdom on stock rods with my setup? I'm thinking that the Crane 343801 cam is going to be on the small side for me. Can anyone else recomend a bigger one that still in a dual pattern configuration? Thanks for all of the cool info. Dan

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-Jun-02 AT 00:27 AM (EST)]Sounds like a sweet FE you are putting together, if you want a bigger cam I'd look at the Crane Powermax mechanical 341191 (I really like the crane bumpsticks and mechanical is the only way to go for racing). You can look up the specs at Cranecams.com but it falls in your compression range and should make for a good mild race cam. The Edel rpm is a good intake, but for your purpose I'd sell it to somebody and get one of the new Edel Victor intakes. Its not a big deal to set up your block for mechanical cams...your builder won't have any problems with that. The stock rods would probably be okay...but I think you would be taking chances with them on the laughing gas, I'd upgrade. I'd recomend you also pick up Steve Christs book "how to build big block Fords"...its sold here at the online store and its one of our Fe'rs bibles. It should answer most of your questions better than we could. Well, better than I could anyways.

 

I agree with Seth. Solids are probably your best bet for racing if you can stand the noise. They will move your powerband down and make you peak lower therefore allowing you to go with an even bigger cam and getting more HP. Since you already have the end stands why not take advantage of them with a solid cam that has much quicker opening rates. Stock rods have been used with nitrous in many race motors spinning up to 7,000 rpms but $600 for the eagles are cheap insurance.

 

BigBlueDan, sounds like you're off to a very nice start. I think you may want to consider some 3.91 gears, 4750 is a heavy car. And maybe some slide-a-links or CalTracks if you have leaf springs out back,.....but that is a whole 'nother topic ;-) Anyways, for your 390 build, first send back that MSD dizzy and get a duraspark instead. The MSD dizzy can't do anything for you that the duraspark doesn't already do for 35$, and it doesn't have vacuum advance, which you should keep. For the rods, it depends how tight you want to spin the engine. Because most FE heads (other than high risers or T-ports) start losing torque above 6250 anyway, I would recommend an RPM limit of 6500. Concentrate on building your power where the FE loves to be, 2500-6500, and you will have plenty of fun and not spend $$ you don't have too. For the connecting rods, I would run the stockers. I think the eagle rods are made from compressed powdered metal, and I am too much of an old stick-in-the-mud to trust that material. But if you DO run the factory rods, polish the beams first, then shotpeen them, then install ARP bolts, then resize the big ends and then rebush the small ends, in that order. The TRW L2291F forged pistons will give you about 10 to 1 compression and will be about .017 down the bore if I am remembering rightly. The FelPro blue gaskets are .041 thick when compressed, running steel shim or copper head gaskets (.017-.020) will boost compression a little and help out on quench. For the camshaft, if you want bigger than 343801, the previously listed 341191 with 238/248 duration and 563/587 lift from crane might be just the thing. If you want to drive insted of setting the lash every month, and want to stick with a hydralic, you might be able to order a 'Cam Dynamics' shaft from Crane. Cam Dynamics made some really neat stuff years ago before they were boughtout by Crane. For a few years their (Crane's) catalog had their own AND cam dynamics grinds listed. One of my engines (390 stroker) has a hydralic cam from C/D in it with 238* and 248* @ .050 and 118 LDA and .589 and .616 lift. Idles raspy at 800 rpm and might not like an automatic tranny at all. But from 3K to 6750, it will tear your head of from your shoulders. Can you afford to hunt around and get a 410/428 crank ? How about an aftermarket crank from Scat ? How do you and your budget feel about roller cams ? DF

 

DF, thanks for the detailed reply. You are right that I need some bigger rearend gearing. That will be next year's Tbird project.

After doing more research, I am now leaning very heavily towards the L2291F pistons, and the Crane 34191 cam. I will be sticking with the 390, as my budget won't allow for a 428 crank and the work associated with the conversion.

I do not own the MSD stuff yet, it is being ordered soon. I thought that MSD was always the way to go for high perf? Tell me more if you would about the Duraspark. Is it good to 6500 rpm's? Is it a hot spark? Is it adjustable for full advance at a given rpm?

Also can you tell me more about roller cams? I have never owned or driven a roller cam. What should I watch for when putting one in an FE? Will it gain me much hp at 3000-6000 rpms?

My builder insists on putting all engine builds on the dyno, so when the time comes with in a month or two, I will post all data.
Thanks again to all who respond! Dan

 

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 01-Jun-02 AT 03:23 PM (EST)]Dino, I agree that vacuum advance is the way to go with stock drivers but I've always preferred mechanical advances on hopped up engines. Just like I prefer double pumpers over vacuum secondaries on really hot engines...even though traditional lore says to put them on race only vehicles. Just my experience. Anyways, since you know about 1000x more than I do about engines I'm curious as to your reasoning about the vacuum advance, maybe I can learn something Personally, I like and run the msd dizzy but I have to agree that its overkill...but if price isn't a problem I would stick with it, its a good unit and the advance is really easy to customize. A roller cam IS the way to go ulitmatly, but there is some debate on whether its worth the cost. If your loaded you might as well go for it, otherwise I think you'd be just as happy (and allot heavier in the pocketbook) sticking with the 341191. Dino can correct me if I'm off on the high cost of putting roller cams in our blocks but I've understand its prohibitive.

 

Vaccum advance is good for one thing and one thing only and that is gas mileage. The MSD setup will give you the best timing control at wide open throttle. If your interests are having a souped up vehicle to drive to work everyday then you might want to stick with the vaccum advance. If you want the upmost performance at WOT only then mechanical is what you want.

 

I sure like the way that crane solid looks on the desktop dyno. It would put me about 30 horses above what I'm making now. I'll stick to my trusty old 801 though and let my exhaust make all the racket.

http://www.clubfte.com/users/ratsmoker/solidcam.jpg

 

BigBlueDan, to use a 410/428, you just have to buy one (350-400$) and choose the correct pistons to match. There really isn't any special work needed to get it in there. But if you don't have an extra 400$ laying around.....useing the 390 crank is fine. As far as dizzys go, yeah, MSD makes some really great stuff. But the stock duraspark dizzy can do the job to any RPM you want, AND has vacuum advance AND is a bunch cheaper. Rat is correct in that the vacuum advance is mostly for gas mileage. But that is important, IMO. Even if it does nothing most of the time, it doesn't hurt you any either. And if you drive it on the street EVER, you'll want to have it. The extra advance when low speed cruising might be just enough to help you stay away from overheating on a hot summer day. And the gas mileage thing- lots of us claim not to care about fuel mileage. And for the most part we don't. But if vacuum advance can change your mileage from 6-7 to 9 or 10, I think thats a really big deal. More mileage means more fun for less $$ spent on fuel. As for how hot it sparks, the duraspark dizzy works like any other magnetic pickup coil. How much amperage will be available @ the plugs is determined by your control box and coil. For those parts, pick MSD or Crane or Jacobs or whoever you like. I have a duraspark dizzy, chrysler (LX101) brain box, and Jacobs computer. As for roller cams, they do everything better. Smoother idle, stronger mid and top end power. But they also blow a HUGE whole in the wallet. Enless you have $$ to burn, they are probably not what you need. DF

 

Ahhh, mileage, schmileage. You guys summed it up well, mechanical advance is worse for mileage but best for ***** out horse...I guess by now everybody knows what I'm all about :P Thanks for posting those dyno specs Rat...I've gotta get that program. I wasn't sure if you guys were going to sign off on my choice of the 341191 cam but I think its a pretty sweet bumpstick. I wouldn't put in a truck...for that I think your guys' '801 is about perfect. I've still got the stock CJ cam in mine...one of these days I've gotta drop in the '801. Anyways, let us know know how your build up goes with the T-bird...

 

 

Seems to be some good advice here. I run a 750dp, edelbrock heads, performer rpm intake, comp 270H setup in a 390 and am impressed with the motor. Basically, just step the cam a bit and you'll have what you want...

My suggestion would be a solid Crane Powermax, 238/248 and .563/.587, once you set up the lash and use good polylocks you won't have to keep adjusting it. I hear different things about running a solid cam, but personally I'd use the shell type lifters and not worry about any restrictions. Cam should pull to 6500 nicely. Run ARP rod bolts, maybe shotpeen the rods, and you should have a nice combo...

If you want a hydraulic cam, Crane H296 looks about right, 234/238 .554/.563.

I'd also dump the 1 5/8" headers and run 1 3/4" primaries.

Have fun, sounds like a neat car.