BioDiesel
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,873
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From: Phx, AZ
I have been making my own BD for the last 4 years. Been running B100 in two 7.3's and in a 1983 mercedes. I have had no fuel related issues. No loss in HP and in my heavily modded truck I lost about .8 mpg. the Stock X gained 1 mpg and absolutely no change n the mercedes. I have about 120,000 combined miles between the three vehicles with no fuel related issues. All three are significantly quieter and smoother running. all three at every oil chage have much cleaner looking oil and have all three passed emissions with flying colors. i support the use of BD and will continue making my own. Hope this info helps
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,308
Likes: 250
From: Hartford, WI
Might be it is a little better to run Bio in an older MB. I know I lost mileage in both my truck and 99 E300 after B40. Don't know if it was the D2 part that wasn't good or what but I know I kept the D2 part from the same source and the B100 part also from the same source.
I know the truck became a little quieter with B20. I also know that with the DI Regulated Return, the truck became even quieter than with BXX. I didn't notice anything with the fuel system since I didn't run it long enough for any meaningful data. Once I determined that I wouldn't gain mileage but would lose it after B40, I stopped the experiment because it wasn't worth the trouble of filling up so much and mixing and all that.
I know the truck became a little quieter with B20. I also know that with the DI Regulated Return, the truck became even quieter than with BXX. I didn't notice anything with the fuel system since I didn't run it long enough for any meaningful data. Once I determined that I wouldn't gain mileage but would lose it after B40, I stopped the experiment because it wasn't worth the trouble of filling up so much and mixing and all that.
Last edited by aklim; Sep 12, 2007 at 09:30 PM.
New User
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 22
Likes: 0
From: Lafayette,La
aklim , I have a question can you please advise what the abbreveations are that was used in your post. i,e,... D2 , DI regulated return and BXX. I just want to be able to fully appreciate and understand all posting enableing futher knowledge of all of these
important subject about Biodiesel.
Thank You Sir
important subject about Biodiesel.
Thank You Sir
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,308
Likes: 250
From: Hartford, WI
Originally Posted by firefighter0205
aklim , I have a question can you please advise what the abbreveations are that was used in your post. i,e,... D2 , DI regulated return and BXX. I just want to be able to fully appreciate and understand all posting enableing futher knowledge of all of these
important subject about Biodiesel.
Thank You Sir
important subject about Biodiesel.
Thank You Sir
D2, Diesel you get at the pump
DI Regulated Return. http://www.dieselinnovations.com/di....cts&product=18
BXX Biodiesel of a certain percentage. B20, 20% biodiesel 80% D2. B40, 40% biodiesel 60% D2
You're welcome. Sorry for the confusion
Tuned
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 278
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,541
Likes: 2
From: Dallas-Ft. Worth
Originally Posted by aklim
How did you determine that the injectors quietened down? Were you listening to the engine or did you have somethign on the injector itself? I heard a slight noise reduction driving with B20. Actually, I heard more noise reduction after the DI Regulated Return than the B50 I tried.
How much longer will it last? IOW, without the quietening down, what is the lifespan vs quietening it down? If the difference is between 350K and 300K, it might not make a difference.
Joe
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,308
Likes: 250
From: Hartford, WI
Originally Posted by Izzy351
I was outside pumping with the engine running, my buddy was inside the truck. I was just standing there watching the $$$'s tick off when I heard a distinct change. That's when I opened the door and asked if he heard what I heard.
A lot of guys have replaced injectors -- I hope to never have to replace one. Some guys have had to do it well before 100k, most others in the 100k-200k range from what I've read. They are somewhat of a common failure. My goal is to keep from having to do it at all (except for the #8 LL -- I plan on changing that one ASAP). That's what the CCK, Reg Return, and Hutch (or kwikk's in-tank fuel pump mod) is for -- keeping air out of the injectors increasing their longevity. Using your example, if I sell/trade my truck off at 300k and one or two go at 350k, I saved myself a lot of work.
Joe
A lot of guys have replaced injectors -- I hope to never have to replace one. Some guys have had to do it well before 100k, most others in the 100k-200k range from what I've read. They are somewhat of a common failure. My goal is to keep from having to do it at all (except for the #8 LL -- I plan on changing that one ASAP). That's what the CCK, Reg Return, and Hutch (or kwikk's in-tank fuel pump mod) is for -- keeping air out of the injectors increasing their longevity. Using your example, if I sell/trade my truck off at 300k and one or two go at 350k, I saved myself a lot of work.
Joe
Talking to parts department, they tell me injectors are replaced one or two at a time. Usually not all 8. I'll talk to the International shop techs again but I don't think it is an often replaced item.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,541
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From: Dallas-Ft. Worth
Not sure what you're getting at. They make noise, and you can hear them idling (especially #8). You can really hear them when you take off from a stop. And I meant a couple at a time -- I said "somewhat of a common failure". I know a couple guys that had to have a few replaced in the 7.3. That to me makes it "somewhat common" in my book. What's with the 
??? Quieter injectors is a known benefit of runnding BD.
Joe
??? Quieter injectors is a known benefit of runnding BD.Joe
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,308
Likes: 250
From: Hartford, WI
Originally Posted by Izzy351
Not sure what you're getting at. They make noise, and you can hear them idling (especially #8). You can really hear them when you take off from a stop. And I meant a couple at a time -- I said "somewhat of a common failure". I know a couple guys that had to have a few replaced in the 7.3. That to me makes it "somewhat common" in my book.
What's with the??? Quieter injectors is a known benefit of runnding BD.
Joe
What's with the
??? Quieter injectors is a known benefit of runnding BD.Joe
It is an effect but whether there is any benefit to it is what I haven't seen yet.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,541
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From: Dallas-Ft. Worth
Unless I'm grossly mistaken, the cackle-cackle-cackle noise you hear with a (stock) 7.3L idling IS the injectors. Isn't that why the CCK, Hutch, etc. quiets them down? What gets quiet when these mods are done if not?
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,308
Likes: 250
From: Hartford, WI
Originally Posted by Izzy351
Unless I'm grossly mistaken, the cackle-cackle-cackle noise you hear with a (stock) 7.3L idling IS the injectors. Isn't that why the CCK, Hutch, etc. quiets them down? What gets quiet when these mods are done if not?
So, I quietened down the "injectors", actually the engine by doing the regulated return. Nothing to do with the fuel.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2007
Posts: 14,541
Likes: 2
From: Dallas-Ft. Worth
Originally Posted by aklim
Well, in a manner of speaking, yes. However, that is not really the issue. The cackle is cured by the CCK or the regulated return. Why? Because we have a dead head fuel system that doesn't feed enough fuel to the injectors. #6 and #8 are fighting for fuel. With the CCK and the regulated return, any air that gets into the system can go back to the tank instead of into the injectors. Go run your truck till it goes out of fuel. Towards the end, the truck sounds pretty loud. That is why youy have the hutch mod. To get rid of the quick disconnect lines that introduce air into the fuel and to get rid of the mixing bowl in the tank that mixes areated fuel with fresh fuel.
So, I quietened down the "injectors", actually the engine by doing the regulated return. Nothing to do with the fuel.
So, I quietened down the "injectors", actually the engine by doing the regulated return. Nothing to do with the fuel.
I know this is splitting hairs a bit, but I just want to be clear here.
Joe
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,308
Likes: 250
From: Hartford, WI
Originally Posted by Izzy351
The injectors are what got quieter with the mods -- if you want to call it the "engine", that's fine.
Saying it has "nothing to do with the fuel" is not really honest because it has everything to do with the fuel (no air in it!!). Now, when you put in a fuel with much better lubricity than ULSD, it will probably quiet down some more like mine did.
I know this is splitting hairs a bit, but I just want to be clear here.
Saying it has "nothing to do with the fuel" is not really honest because it has everything to do with the fuel (no air in it!!). Now, when you put in a fuel with much better lubricity than ULSD, it will probably quiet down some more like mine did.
I know this is splitting hairs a bit, but I just want to be clear here.
OK. try this then. Add an additive that increases lubricity and see if anyone else can do a blind test and tell the difference. IMO, the thing about biodiesel is that it changes the combustion charisterics. But if you feel it is the lubricity, keep the fuel and add a lubricity agent. If it quietens down, the lubricity changed something.
I think the saying is that the devil is in the details.
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