400 Charging System Not Functioning - What else could the problem be?
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Posting Guru
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From: Oregon
4 pins F, S, A, I (I'm guessing A is the same as your A+ now that I look at it).
I just ran jumpers between the reg pins and the plastic harness with my fog lamp wiring kit (never hooked them up, I'm lazy).
Did the test like you said:
Battery Voltage 12.62
4.8A Drain from battery
Regulator terminals:
I 4.7mV
A 12.46V
S 4.7.mV
F 10.67V
EDIT: Oh yeah, Welcome to FTE cj413!
I just ran jumpers between the reg pins and the plastic harness with my fog lamp wiring kit (never hooked them up, I'm lazy).
Did the test like you said:
Battery Voltage 12.62
4.8A Drain from battery
Regulator terminals:
I 4.7mV
A 12.46V
S 4.7.mV
F 10.67V
EDIT: Oh yeah, Welcome to FTE cj413!
Last edited by ihateminimumwage; May 4, 2007 at 10:22 PM.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,270
Likes: 5
From: Delaware
Originally Posted by ihateminimumwage
4 pins F, S, A, I (I'm guessing A is the same as your A+ now that I look at it).
I just ran jumpers between the reg pins and the plastic harness with my fog lamp wiring kit (never hooked them up, I'm lazy).
Did the test like you said:
Battery Voltage 12.62
4.8A Drain from battery
Regulator terminals:
I 4.7mV
A 12.46V
S 4.7.mV
F 10.67V
EDIT: Oh yeah, Welcome to FTE cj413!
I just ran jumpers between the reg pins and the plastic harness with my fog lamp wiring kit (never hooked them up, I'm lazy).
Did the test like you said:
Battery Voltage 12.62
4.8A Drain from battery
Regulator terminals:
I 4.7mV
A 12.46V
S 4.7.mV
F 10.67V
EDIT: Oh yeah, Welcome to FTE cj413!
Also repeat the test with A terminal connected, but connect the negative meter lead to the regulator body, and again with the negative meter lead connected to the alternator case.
Last edited by danlee; May 5, 2007 at 06:38 AM.
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From: Oregon
With the "A" terminal disconnected:
I 0V
A Disconnected
S 0V
F 0V
With All Conected & MM negative on Regulator Case:
I 0V
A 12.35V
S 0
F 10.81V
With All Conected & MM negative on Alternator Body:
I -2.0mV
A 12.32V
S -1.6mV
F 10.61V
I 0V
A Disconnected
S 0V
F 0V
With All Conected & MM negative on Regulator Case:
I 0V
A 12.35V
S 0
F 10.81V
With All Conected & MM negative on Alternator Body:
I -2.0mV
A 12.32V
S -1.6mV
F 10.61V
Junior User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 69
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From: Oregon
Originally Posted by danlee
I found a regulator wiring diagram in an old Chiltons manual.
My first question is:
What is the voltage on the 'I' terminal of the regulator with the keyswitch 'OFF' or disconnected?
At The same time measure the voltage at the A+ terminal, the S terminal, and the F terminal.
Measure these with the (-) lead of the meter connected to the battery (-) terminal and the battery ground lead connected.
My first question is:
What is the voltage on the 'I' terminal of the regulator with the keyswitch 'OFF' or disconnected?
At The same time measure the voltage at the A+ terminal, the S terminal, and the F terminal.
Measure these with the (-) lead of the meter connected to the battery (-) terminal and the battery ground lead connected.
green/red from ignition switch to S (should only have power when key on)
yellow from starter relay/bat to A (has power all the time)
F reg to F on Alt
ST on Alt to choke or nothing
B on Alt to back to battery via starter relay and ammeter
I'll scan and post the diagrams in a bit. Gotta go help wife...
Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
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From: Oregon
Okay, can somebody please show me a picture of a ballast resistor, or resistance wire? Or where in the line it usually is? (i.e. behind the instrument cluster, under the hood, etc.)
I've followed the positive wire from my coil (red wire) to plastic wiring harness under the hood, after that it's a red wire with a grey stripe that leads into the dash panel. I've been following the diagram in danlee's gallery
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...=98311&width=0
but have found nothing in my setup besides ordinary wiring. I've also followed the green/red wire from the S terminal back as far as I can, but it goes up under the heater core. If need be, I can pull the heater core (it's disconnected anyways, as it leaks).
I have all of today and tomorrow to work on this, and all the tape off of my wiring and the whole dash ripped apart again, digging through the clusterf*** of wires in there, so please let me know!
Thanks folks!
I've followed the positive wire from my coil (red wire) to plastic wiring harness under the hood, after that it's a red wire with a grey stripe that leads into the dash panel. I've been following the diagram in danlee's gallery
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...=98311&width=0
but have found nothing in my setup besides ordinary wiring. I've also followed the green/red wire from the S terminal back as far as I can, but it goes up under the heater core. If need be, I can pull the heater core (it's disconnected anyways, as it leaks).
I have all of today and tomorrow to work on this, and all the tape off of my wiring and the whole dash ripped apart again, digging through the clusterf*** of wires in there, so please let me know!
Thanks folks!
Junior User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
I'm with ya, off and on....
Here is a link to my Gallery. I just created some composite scans from a factory manual for a 78 Lincoln MkV. The charging system should be the same as yours. I posted both the idiot light and ammeter versions and pasted in the theory of operation text. Sure hope this helps.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...&albumid=28136
As to ballast v.s. resistance wire. Here is a link to a ballast resistor
http://www1.autozone.com/Ntt,ballast...00EAD76EF7304C
The one I have is just rectangular, it doesn't have the mounting hole in the middle and has a metal mounting cage instead. They are usually white or light gray and are ceramic. It doesn't sound like you have one since they are usually easy to find if you follow the wire from the ignition coil.
Resistance wires are a lot harder to find... I just uploaded a diagram for the DuraSpark ignition wiring showing the ballast resistance wire. Maybe it will help.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...&albumid=28137
Good luck brother!
Here is a link to my Gallery. I just created some composite scans from a factory manual for a 78 Lincoln MkV. The charging system should be the same as yours. I posted both the idiot light and ammeter versions and pasted in the theory of operation text. Sure hope this helps.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...&albumid=28136
As to ballast v.s. resistance wire. Here is a link to a ballast resistor
http://www1.autozone.com/Ntt,ballast...00EAD76EF7304C
The one I have is just rectangular, it doesn't have the mounting hole in the middle and has a metal mounting cage instead. They are usually white or light gray and are ceramic. It doesn't sound like you have one since they are usually easy to find if you follow the wire from the ignition coil.
Resistance wires are a lot harder to find... I just uploaded a diagram for the DuraSpark ignition wiring showing the ballast resistance wire. Maybe it will help.
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...&albumid=28137
Good luck brother!
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,270
Likes: 5
From: Delaware
Originally Posted by grego
His truck has an ammeter instead of the idiot light so his I terminal is not connected.
green/red from ignition switch to S (should only have power when key on)
yellow from starter relay/bat to A (has power all the time)
F reg to F on Alt
ST on Alt to choke or nothing
B on Alt to back to battery via starter relay and ammeter
I'll scan and post the diagrams in a bit. Gotta go help wife...
green/red from ignition switch to S (should only have power when key on)
yellow from starter relay/bat to A (has power all the time)
F reg to F on Alt
ST on Alt to choke or nothing
B on Alt to back to battery via starter relay and ammeter
I'll scan and post the diagrams in a bit. Gotta go help wife...
The 10.x volts at the field terminal is coming from the 'A' terminal through a voltage divider inside the regulator, however this shouldn't occur until the 'S' terminal energizes the field relay.
The next step is to disconnect the jumper at the 'S' terminal, and measure the 'F' terminal again.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,270
Likes: 5
From: Delaware
Originally Posted by ihateminimumwage
Okay, can somebody please show me a picture of a ballast resistor, or resistance wire? Or where in the line it usually is? (i.e. behind the instrument cluster, under the hood, etc.)
I've followed the positive wire from my coil (red wire) to plastic wiring harness under the hood, after that it's a red wire with a grey stripe that leads into the dash panel. I've been following the diagram in danlee's gallery
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...=98311&width=0
but have found nothing in my setup besides ordinary wiring. I've also followed the green/red wire from the S terminal back as far as I can, but it goes up under the heater core. If need be, I can pull the heater core (it's disconnected anyways, as it leaks).
I have all of today and tomorrow to work on this, and all the tape off of my wiring and the whole dash ripped apart again, digging through the clusterf*** of wires in there, so please let me know!
Thanks folks!
I've followed the positive wire from my coil (red wire) to plastic wiring harness under the hood, after that it's a red wire with a grey stripe that leads into the dash panel. I've been following the diagram in danlee's gallery
https://www.ford-trucks.com/user_gal...=98311&width=0
but have found nothing in my setup besides ordinary wiring. I've also followed the green/red wire from the S terminal back as far as I can, but it goes up under the heater core. If need be, I can pull the heater core (it's disconnected anyways, as it leaks).
I have all of today and tomorrow to work on this, and all the tape off of my wiring and the whole dash ripped apart again, digging through the clusterf*** of wires in there, so please let me know!
Thanks folks!
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Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,282
Likes: 4
From: Oregon
S disconnected:
F terminal 10.56V
I've pulled my glovebox and stripped the tape off of all the wiring. I have no idea what I'm suppossed to be looking for, if it "probably looks like any other wire."
I'm trying to follow those diagrams, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Looking at how simple the diagrams are set up, but what a mess the real thing is.
EDIT: I followed my Haynes diagram. From the coil, it is one wire that connects to the plastic quick connect harness. There are two wires coming from the coil wire part of the harness leading into the cab. One connects to one of the black rubber splitters, and branches into a thick red/green wire, and a brown wire. Both leading up over the heater controls. I'll follow where these lead, along with the other wire from the quick connect, when I find it. It's a real mess.
F terminal 10.56V
I've pulled my glovebox and stripped the tape off of all the wiring. I have no idea what I'm suppossed to be looking for, if it "probably looks like any other wire."
I'm trying to follow those diagrams, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Looking at how simple the diagrams are set up, but what a mess the real thing is.
EDIT: I followed my Haynes diagram. From the coil, it is one wire that connects to the plastic quick connect harness. There are two wires coming from the coil wire part of the harness leading into the cab. One connects to one of the black rubber splitters, and branches into a thick red/green wire, and a brown wire. Both leading up over the heater controls. I'll follow where these lead, along with the other wire from the quick connect, when I find it. It's a real mess.
Last edited by ihateminimumwage; May 5, 2007 at 04:13 PM.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,270
Likes: 5
From: Delaware
That looks like a relay. I wouldn't look for that ballast resistor any more. You need to get a new regulator. The contacts in the field relay appear to be fused together.
The 64 dollar question is: What fused them?
It would be from heavy current being drawn from the 'A' terminal, which is battery voltage through the 'I' terminal.
Find out where the 'I' terminal is connected and disconnect it, before you replace the regulator.
The 64 dollar question is: What fused them?
It would be from heavy current being drawn from the 'A' terminal, which is battery voltage through the 'I' terminal.
Find out where the 'I' terminal is connected and disconnect it, before you replace the regulator.
Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
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Posts: 2,282
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From: Oregon
There is nothing connected to the I terminal on the regulator. It is blocked off by the harness.
I need to know for sure this is the problem. I'm not going out and wasting money on another regulator until there is no other option. I'm yet to find any damaged wires, but I need to know what would be shorting the reg.
EDIT: The brown wire from the connection to the coil + wire seems to lead back out to the "I" terminal in my solenoid. The other wire pink/green goes up behind the heater controls, then turns around and goes into the ignition switch (it was wrapped in electrical tape with everything else), same place the regulator goes to (red/green wire). No damage for the whole length of that wire, or any others I've looked at.
I need to know for sure this is the problem. I'm not going out and wasting money on another regulator until there is no other option. I'm yet to find any damaged wires, but I need to know what would be shorting the reg.
EDIT: The brown wire from the connection to the coil + wire seems to lead back out to the "I" terminal in my solenoid. The other wire pink/green goes up behind the heater controls, then turns around and goes into the ignition switch (it was wrapped in electrical tape with everything else), same place the regulator goes to (red/green wire). No damage for the whole length of that wire, or any others I've looked at.
Last edited by ihateminimumwage; May 5, 2007 at 04:56 PM.
Junior User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 69
Likes: 0
From: Oregon
Danlee is correct. The field relay contacts, inside the regulator are stuck closed.
You might be able to remove the regulator and bang on it or open it up and free them. It is the contact directly attached to the S terminal.
But, like you say, you need to figure out why it happened before damaging another regulator. I don't know what else to suggest at the moment. I will think about it and check in later.
You might be able to remove the regulator and bang on it or open it up and free them. It is the contact directly attached to the S terminal.
But, like you say, you need to figure out why it happened before damaging another regulator. I don't know what else to suggest at the moment. I will think about it and check in later.
Postmaster
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 4,270
Likes: 5
From: Delaware
The interesting thing is that there was no voltage on the 'I' terminal. If the field contacts were closed there should have been 12 Volts there. It is possible that the regulator internal connection to the 'I' terminal has been burned out.
Is it possible to open the regulator and look at the connection to the 'I' terminal and look at the field relay contacts?
Is it possible to open the regulator and look at the connection to the 'I' terminal and look at the field relay contacts?
Thread Starter
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Posting Guru
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 2,282
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From: Oregon
Not opening it up unless they say I can't exchange it... If I can get another on warranty, I'll be much happier.
I'm currently following back EVERY single wire that goes to each of the terminals, and writing everything down. Although I don't think anything is wired wrong, as I never had this problem before. Currently going through every single thing connected to the "A" terminal.
I'm currently following back EVERY single wire that goes to each of the terminals, and writing everything down. Although I don't think anything is wired wrong, as I never had this problem before. Currently going through every single thing connected to the "A" terminal.