97 Aerostar Timing Chain
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Freshman User
Joined: Sep 2006
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97 Aerostar Timing Chain
My 97 full length, 2wd, 3.0 just puked over the weekend. It has 137,000 miles on the engine and we have not ever had a problem with the motor. Driving it Saturday doing about 55 and all of a sudden it started running real rough and had to push the throttle deeper as it did not have much power. At idle it seems to be running on about 4 cylinders and it apperars that the timing is all out of wack. Have a noticable tapping sound coming from the area of the timing chain. I suspect the timing chain jumped a tooth but I don't understand the tapping sound. Exhaust smells bad like it is not properly buring the fuel and it barely runs at idle. Very rough and the motor shakes. I plan on tearing into the timing chain but obviously don't want to tear into that if it is something else, guess it could be valve related but again the sound seems to be coming from the timing chain area. Any ideas?
Lead Driver
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 7,015
Likes: 208
From: SoCal
The only way to check this without instruments is to do some tearing into the engine. One way is to remove the valve cover to look at the positions of the valves for cylinder 1, and the timing mark on the harmonic damper. Another is to remove the front cover and see if the marks on the timing sprockets are lined up.
I think that engine has both crank and cam position sensors. The crank position sensor is located on the front of the engine on the lower-right position, about 10 O'clock looking from the front. There are teeth on the crank pulley, and one missing tooth that lines up with the sensor at TDC for cylinder 1. The cam position sensor is located in where the distributor would be, at the back of the engine. The electric sensor can be removed to check the TDC position, but I'm not sure what its reference point is. Remember that it takes 2 turns of the crank to make 1 turn of the cam.
I think that engine has both crank and cam position sensors. The crank position sensor is located on the front of the engine on the lower-right position, about 10 O'clock looking from the front. There are teeth on the crank pulley, and one missing tooth that lines up with the sensor at TDC for cylinder 1. The cam position sensor is located in where the distributor would be, at the back of the engine. The electric sensor can be removed to check the TDC position, but I'm not sure what its reference point is. Remember that it takes 2 turns of the crank to make 1 turn of the cam.
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Orland USA
ehawks:
Lets not forget about Vaccum lines popping loose or cracking,
Coil gone bad, Spark plug/s gone bad, Blowed Head Gasket, plus various other things that can cause the same symptoms.
I had crossed two spark plug wires and when I started it up I thought the engine was going to jump out of the van. It backfired and had no power when the petal was pressed.
JaY
Lets not forget about Vaccum lines popping loose or cracking,
Coil gone bad, Spark plug/s gone bad, Blowed Head Gasket, plus various other things that can cause the same symptoms.
I had crossed two spark plug wires and when I started it up I thought the engine was going to jump out of the van. It backfired and had no power when the petal was pressed.
JaY
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Freshman User
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Tapping
All good thoughts but the tapping sounds I am getting are definetelly metal on metal so that is why I think it is coming from the timing chain. Don't know how a bad vacuum line could cause such a sound
Senior User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 169
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Try this, maybe it will help:
http://www.misterfixit.com/chanslop.htm
Let me know if this info helps you out; I've been saving it just in case! Seems like it could be a good timesaver.
M
http://www.misterfixit.com/chanslop.htm
Let me know if this info helps you out; I've been saving it just in case! Seems like it could be a good timesaver.
M
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,041
Likes: 1
From: Orland USA
Ehawks:
Well I had a little chevy luv that the head gasket blew out between two cylinders. The noise it made was like it was out of time.
Because it was pressureing back into the other cyl when it fired.
It shook, Knocked, wouldn't go over 20mph. I thought it was a timing chain too until I pulled a spark plug wire and the knocking quit.
As far as the tapping....Bad valve lifter, Piston Slap, Bad Piston or Crank Bearing, Mis-firing........
JaY
Well I had a little chevy luv that the head gasket blew out between two cylinders. The noise it made was like it was out of time.
Because it was pressureing back into the other cyl when it fired.
It shook, Knocked, wouldn't go over 20mph. I thought it was a timing chain too until I pulled a spark plug wire and the knocking quit.
As far as the tapping....Bad valve lifter, Piston Slap, Bad Piston or Crank Bearing, Mis-firing........
JaY
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Postmaster
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 4,452
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From: Southern California
Ehawks:
Before doing anything, read the codes first and see what comes out of it.
A timing chain is the last thing I'd look for, mainly because it's quite labor intensive.
Before doing anything, read the codes first and see what comes out of it.
A timing chain is the last thing I'd look for, mainly because it's quite labor intensive.
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Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 5,720
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From: Washington state
put an OBDII scanner on it...will quickly tell you if static idle (10d btdc) and dynamic ignition timing is correct....hold at steady 2000 rpm in neutral, dynamic should be abt 28d BTDC and rock steady....if timing is off=probable failure of timing chain/gears
Former ******
Joined: Nov 2004
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From: Salt Lake City, Utah
I would think that if you have both a crank sensor and a cam sensor, that any misalignment between then would trigger a code. How was the oil level and condition when this happened?
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Wichita
It is 9 degrees F this morning. Thank God for garages! When my diesel Mercedes died one winter years ago I only had a carport. To set up and rebuild the engine, I draped blue tarps all around and poked one of those 150K BTU kerosene heaters in to keep it warm. It worked out very well.
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Freshman User
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Well boys. Finally warm enought for me to tear it down. No compression cylinder no. 6. stuck exhaust valve. Little ding in the top of the piston but looks ok, push rod took all the beating. Laying on top of the lifter area, no metal shavings in my oil so looks good. Going to have the heads rebuilt and put back togeather.
Elder User
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 830
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From: Kitchener,Ontario,Canada
Still would be a good idea to check the valve timing, it would be difficult to say if the valve got stuck from being bent due to incorrect camshaft position or gummed up , as it would have bent anyway from contacting the piston.
Crankshaft timing PIP to camshaft would throw a code but it would have to be out by at least a certain amount & who knows how much that angle is?
TDC #1 cyl is at the 6th notch CW from the missing notch on the crankshaft toothed wheel. You need to be on the compression stroke (piston 1 valves closed). The camshaft sensor vane will be close to being lined up with the small notch at the rear of the synchroniser housing if you take the sensor off to look see. There is a setting fixture to check this position, if it wont go on the timing is out. This would be quicker than taking off the chain cover & water pump, fan etc.
Hope it all works out,
Aeroman.
Crankshaft timing PIP to camshaft would throw a code but it would have to be out by at least a certain amount & who knows how much that angle is?
TDC #1 cyl is at the 6th notch CW from the missing notch on the crankshaft toothed wheel. You need to be on the compression stroke (piston 1 valves closed). The camshaft sensor vane will be close to being lined up with the small notch at the rear of the synchroniser housing if you take the sensor off to look see. There is a setting fixture to check this position, if it wont go on the timing is out. This would be quicker than taking off the chain cover & water pump, fan etc.
Hope it all works out,
Aeroman.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: Washington state
137k on the engine
do the chain/gear set now while you have it tore down...save head aches later
all the longer they usually last anyway
the 3 and 4L OHV Aero engines are non interference engines so cam chain failure can not cause valve piston contact but will ruin your vacation
pay $150 to do it now or $500 on vacation
look for a broken spring or keeper that let valve drop into piston
have rod checked for straightness, wrist pin bent or damaged, rod bearing checked for crushing or damage, piston checked for cracks and rings checked for breakage...also can damage roller lifter and rocker arm
all common with valve piston hit
do the chain/gear set now while you have it tore down...save head aches later
all the longer they usually last anyway
the 3 and 4L OHV Aero engines are non interference engines so cam chain failure can not cause valve piston contact but will ruin your vacation
pay $150 to do it now or $500 on vacation
look for a broken spring or keeper that let valve drop into piston
have rod checked for straightness, wrist pin bent or damaged, rod bearing checked for crushing or damage, piston checked for cracks and rings checked for breakage...also can damage roller lifter and rocker arm
all common with valve piston hit