ok, someone help me settle this debate
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Elder User
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Hazelton,BC Canada
ok, someone help me settle this debate
ok so, the topic is turbo surge, or more importantly what is causing this wheel to "stall" or surge. my father, who is quite knowledgeable when it comes to bulding hi HP gas engines or general gearhead know-how. anyways, in his way of thinking, since i straight piped my truck, and installed the 6637 filter, and am now noticing the surge is because that 6637 isnt flowin as much air asthe stock box because half of the filter is covered by battery hood ect...but if this isthe case, the stock box is fully enclosed...but it does have some "ram" air effect. from what ive read/understand its like the turbo is trying to suck in more air than the wheel can handle...I think...and then brought up the question as to how the ATS i just got is supposed to stop it from surging....wich I dont know exactly how...but I do know it works, at least it better....tomorrow, for curiositys sake, im going to put the stock box on and see if I can still get it to surge.....thats all I canthink of right now, tell me your thoughts, I expect kris to have some turbo theories to clear this issue up.
Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Columbia, MO
With the stock box, it's still going to surge, you just won't hear it. The stock airbox muffles that sound. And the 6637 is flowing a lot more air than the stock filter. Even if part of it is partially blocked by a few parts, you've still got more filter surface area than your stock one.
The surge basically is caused by the turbo trying to force more air in than what the engine can take, and the turbo is pushed out of it's compressor map. The ATS housing cures that surge because of the "bleed ring" on the intake. If you look at the itake, there is a small groove cut right where the blades start. The excess air is bled back through that groove and helps to eliminate the surge.
The surge basically is caused by the turbo trying to force more air in than what the engine can take, and the turbo is pushed out of it's compressor map. The ATS housing cures that surge because of the "bleed ring" on the intake. If you look at the itake, there is a small groove cut right where the blades start. The excess air is bled back through that groove and helps to eliminate the surge.
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Elder User
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From: Hazelton,BC Canada
yea jt, I showed the housing to my old hockey coach who knows alot about turbos becauseh e has a 870hp tubro mustang...beside the point..and he said those grooves help eliminatethe surge
Laughing Gas
Joined: Apr 2005
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From: West-Central New York
So the idea is to provide a route for excess air to escape? and if so, how do we apply that to our 6637 filter system using the stock air pipe? Some form of secondary piping inside the tube? or... suggestions anyone? I don't have the money for a new ATI intake system but I do hate that compressor surging.
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From: Parker, CO
Originally Posted by dcf4x4
So the idea is to provide a route for excess air to escape? and if so, how do we apply that to our 6637 filter system using the stock air pipe?
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Lead Driver
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Originally Posted by jtharvey
The surge basically is caused by the turbo trying to force more air in than what the engine can take, and the turbo is pushed out of it's compressor map.
So, if the WW increases air flow, how exactly does it help in reducing surge?
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Post Fiend
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From: Parker, CO
Originally Posted by empiretc
So, if the WW increases air flow, how exactly does it help in reducing surge?
Lead Driver
Joined: Oct 2004
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From: Columbia, MO
Originally Posted by Pocket
Actually, the WW doesn't increase airflow. Every other vane on the wheel is halfed, so it actually moves less air.
Some will argue that the WW moves more air, but it just doesn't make sense. Like Pocket said, every other vane is half the size. Think about this - if you took your standard fan, like a pedistal fan, and cut every other blade down like the WW is, would you expect it to blow harder?
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Elder User
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From: Hazelton,BC Canada
Originally Posted by Pocket
Actually, the WW doesn't increase airflow. Every other vane on the wheel is halfed, so it actually moves less air
could I have not noticed or had surge before I put in my lift and big tires, because I had the 6637 before that and never noticed it until I was puttin a test run down withthe lift in and was rippin up a hill in 6th and thats when I first heard it.?
Lead Driver
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Originally Posted by Pocket
Actually, the WW doesn't increase airflow.
* Increase Airflow
* Lower Exhaust Temperatures
* Increase Low-End Throttle Response
* For use in 1999.5 - 2003 7.3L Ford Powerstrokes
Post Fiend
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From: Central, Al
David they are kinda true:
At lower rpm's it spools up faster and does move more air quicker but it will typically produce 2-3psi less boost at the topend and this is where the lower EGT's come in
At lower rpm's it spools up faster and does move more air quicker but it will typically produce 2-3psi less boost at the topend and this is where the lower EGT's come in
Lead Driver
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Alan, I understand the ww works. I was just wondering what the main difference was that reduces surge. I dont tow very often so I think I can get by, but eventually I will get one. Just need to muster the courage to install it.
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Elder User
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From: Hazelton,BC Canada
I dont tow either, and when goin up a hill in 6th gear around 1800-2200 rpm it will surge, if I pull a big shift from 5th to 6th I can sometimes get past it, but cruisin up a hill in 5th at 2700rpm with 37s is fast enough until I hit flat. if Im easy on the throttle on flat in 6th till about 2000rpm I can then step on it and now have it surge.
Last edited by crack; Nov 2, 2006 at 12:00 PM.