Warming up a PSD
New User
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Central California Coast
Originally Posted by laredo7mma
This might give some better information to allow people to draw their own conclusion:
Elder User
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From: Edmonton, AB
Originally Posted by slowolf
Also this appears to be oil pressures related to Cummins diesel. What does that have to do with Powerstroke?
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From: Carhenge
That is an interesting graph, makes a good argument for using 5w-40 oil in the winter (which I do).
Got any idea at what engine rpm's this data was gathered? Could it be at idle speed?
Do you suppose at higher than idle speeds, pressure might come up sooner?
Got any idea at what engine rpm's this data was gathered? Could it be at idle speed?
Do you suppose at higher than idle speeds, pressure might come up sooner?
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From: Carhenge
Originally Posted by duffman77
Dont get so hung up on this is a cummins, who cares? that is so much better data than the typical "IMHO" we always see on this site. At the end of the day, an engine is an engine, they all use oil pumps and have cranks, pistons, valves and valvetrains.
Should a graph based on a cummins more believable than my own UOA? Your mileage may vary, but I know which one I'm hanging my hat on.
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Joined: Mar 2004
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Go easy, fellas. 
About that graph, I'm assuming that the origin is just before you start the engine. It seems to show that the longer allowed to idle, the higher the oil pressure at the rocker shaft, for each oil, respectively. It also shows that each oil peaks out at about 45, 65, and 90 seconds, respectively. Lastly, it shows that 5W-40 synthetic builds pressure quicker than 10W-30 dino, which builds pressure quicker than 10W-40 dino.
So I think that the conclusion one could draw from that chart is that starting that particular cummins engine and letting it go for up to a minute and a half will be necessary to reach max pressure at the rocker shaft, and some oils will do it quicker than that.
While it's true that this is not one of our powerstrokes, I agree with duffman that it is similarly applicable to all engines, and probably the bigger the engine, the moreso or rather the longer it takes to build pressure, just because of the distance oil must travel.
That's what I gather from that particular graph, anyway.
About that graph, I'm assuming that the origin is just before you start the engine. It seems to show that the longer allowed to idle, the higher the oil pressure at the rocker shaft, for each oil, respectively. It also shows that each oil peaks out at about 45, 65, and 90 seconds, respectively. Lastly, it shows that 5W-40 synthetic builds pressure quicker than 10W-30 dino, which builds pressure quicker than 10W-40 dino.
So I think that the conclusion one could draw from that chart is that starting that particular cummins engine and letting it go for up to a minute and a half will be necessary to reach max pressure at the rocker shaft, and some oils will do it quicker than that.
While it's true that this is not one of our powerstrokes, I agree with duffman that it is similarly applicable to all engines, and probably the bigger the engine, the moreso or rather the longer it takes to build pressure, just because of the distance oil must travel.
That's what I gather from that particular graph, anyway.
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Joined: Apr 2006
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From: Edmonton, AB
Originally Posted by clux
What I have said here "IMHO" has been based on UOA of oil from my engine--which I consider to be a very good indicator of what is happening in my engine, and might even be an indicator of what may happen in other 7.3 powerstrokes.
Should a graph based on a cummins more believable than my own UOA? Your mileage may vary, but I know which one I'm hanging my hat on.
Should a graph based on a cummins more believable than my own UOA? Your mileage may vary, but I know which one I'm hanging my hat on.
The comment is very general to this site, alot of bad advice or alot of hearsay is given here and no proof or rational discussion to support it. Proof in point, I gave the same explanation as his graph in my post 23, because it was just words with no real back up, probably 80% of the readers though WTF is he talking about and ignored it.
Since you are calling me out on this, I will bounce it back to you, (I am not familiar with the engine the graph is based on but I am assuming it is probably out of a tractor trailer or similar HD app). If you think that your powerstroke gets oil up to the top end significantly faster than a HD engine, how do they typically go twice as many miles as our pickup diesels before rebuilds if there oil systems are so inferior?
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Joined: Dec 2003
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I think this graph shows A good point, and that is how cold is cold. My truck has never seen -15C, here in socal maybe +40F, if I was starting my truck at -15C I probaply wouldn't be so quick to start and go after 30 sec.
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From: Carhenge
Originally Posted by duffman77
Since you are calling me out on this, I will bounce it back to you, (I am not familiar with the engine the graph is based on but I am assuming it is probably out of a tractor trailer or similar HD app). If you think that your powerstroke gets oil up to the top end significantly faster than a HD engine, how do they typically go twice as many miles as our pickup diesels before rebuilds if there oil systems are so inferior?
As far as why OTR truck run a lot more miles than our pickups, I believe the answer there is opportunity. Could it be because the typical otr truck is running down the highway stacking on miles at the same time the typical pickup is sitting in a driveway at an idle while it warms up? How long would it take the typical pickup buyer to put a million miles on compared to an otr truck? I think our engines will run with any other engine in terms of total mileage if it is driven in the same manner.
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New User
Joined: Jul 2006
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From: Central California Coast
Originally Posted by duffman77
I was quoting someone else who asked in post 53 for proof, was given about the best proof you can get on this topic and complained it wasnt his motor specific.
I wasn't complaining. Just asking a rational question.
Posting Guru
Joined: May 2004
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From: Northern Utah
This thread sure seems to bounce around...
The question was about Warming up a PSD. I have started a cold 6.0 at 30 degrees F, short warm-up and drive for a total run-time of approx 20 minutes. I then immediately changed the oil and found that it was luke warm. It takes a lot longer to bring 14-15 quarts of oil up to operating temp compared to a typical 5-6 quart gasser.
FWIW I usually plug mine in when under 32 degrees (for a couple hours w/timer).
The question was about Warming up a PSD. I have started a cold 6.0 at 30 degrees F, short warm-up and drive for a total run-time of approx 20 minutes. I then immediately changed the oil and found that it was luke warm. It takes a lot longer to bring 14-15 quarts of oil up to operating temp compared to a typical 5-6 quart gasser.
FWIW I usually plug mine in when under 32 degrees (for a couple hours w/timer).
Last edited by utahtom; Oct 5, 2006 at 12:17 PM.
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Joined: Jul 2003
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From: Manchester, NH
Originally Posted by clux
I'm not saying anything about the inferiority/superiority of any oiling systems, all I'm saying is that to my way of thinking, my own UOA is far better information to base decisions about my engine on than oil pressure data from an 11 litre I-6 cummins. That's all. My analysis reports tell me that what I am doing is is resulting in much less than average wear. Perhaps you can give me some sound reasons why I should believe this graph over what oil analysis is telling me?
As far as why OTR truck run a lot more miles than our pickups, I believe the answer there is opportunity. Could it be because the typical otr truck is running down the highway stacking on miles at the same time the typical pickup is sitting in a driveway at an idle while it warms up? How long would it take the typical pickup buyer to put a million miles on compared to an otr truck? I think our engines will run with any other engine in terms of total mileage if it is driven in the same manner.
As far as why OTR truck run a lot more miles than our pickups, I believe the answer there is opportunity. Could it be because the typical otr truck is running down the highway stacking on miles at the same time the typical pickup is sitting in a driveway at an idle while it warms up? How long would it take the typical pickup buyer to put a million miles on compared to an otr truck? I think our engines will run with any other engine in terms of total mileage if it is driven in the same manner.
I think you are right about the manner in which a truck is driven, does dictate the miles you will get out of it. I am not sure if it's internet legend or not, but there was a story about a guy in the 80's driving a mercedes 250 miles each way to work every day. He got 1 million miles out of his vehicle at some point, when mercedes gave him a brand new s class and took his car back to place on show in a gallery somewhere. As for warm up time, I am lucky, I can idle down my streets at 5 mph for a little while before I apply any pressure to the accelerator, i let it warm for up to 2 minutes then roll for a bit. Climb a large hill, then enter the highway, I am usually at operating temp by the time i reach the highway. Stiff but smooth roll-on acceleration getting onto the highway and keep the speed up until the speed limiter kicks in, then let it slow down to about 80. Throw a game of cat and mouse in there and it's a trip to work. I don't think high idling hurts our engines, but standard idling does.
my .02
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Originally Posted by clux
Perhaps you can give me some sound reasons why I should believe this graph over what oil analysis is telling me?
perhaps you would have even better results with a longer warm up idle period. we are talking about physics here and they seem to dictate the outcome of the posted graph.
UAO may not be the see all, be all of engine wear as i see it.
from what i have read at this site and others the 7.3 has below average wear anyway, plus the title of this thread is warming up the 6.uhoh.
Last edited by killaford; Oct 5, 2006 at 05:50 PM.
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From: Carhenge
Originally Posted by killaford
perhaps you would have even better results with a longer warm up idle period. we are talking about physics here and they seem to dictate the outcome of the posted graph.
UAO may not be the see all, be all of engine wear as i see it.
from what i have read at this site and others the 7.3 has below average wear anyway, plus the title of this thread is warming up the 6.uhoh.
UAO may not be the see all, be all of engine wear as i see it.
from what i have read at this site and others the 7.3 has below average wear anyway, plus the title of this thread is warming up the 6.uhoh.
Not that it really matters, except to maybe you.
I've also been told that I am destroying my engine because I don't pre-fill my oil filters at oil changes and because I run a 10,000 mile OCI. I can't figure out where wear metals might be going in my engine if they don't go into my crankcase oil. So, I think I'll stick with believing my UOA, thanks.
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Just a thought on your UAO.
It's possible the results could be better with longer warm-ups and more frequent changes. The fact that you are happy with them is "good for you".
It doesn't mean that you have the ultimate engine strategy.
It's possible the results could be better with longer warm-ups and more frequent changes. The fact that you are happy with them is "good for you".
It doesn't mean that you have the ultimate engine strategy.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Carhenge
Originally Posted by Anchorman
Just a thought on your UAO.
It's possible the results could be better with longer warm-ups and more frequent changes. The fact that you are happy with them is "good for you".
It doesn't mean that you have the ultimate engine strategy.
It's possible the results could be better with longer warm-ups and more frequent changes. The fact that you are happy with them is "good for you".
It doesn't mean that you have the ultimate engine strategy.
I certainly don't believe I have the ultimate engine strategy, but I am happy with the results of what I am doing. I am simply claiming that start&go isn't resulting in any unusual wear. And I think my analysis backs that up.