Illegal Alien Invasion
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,221
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I don't want to get into this because I'll get way too angry and it will take up all my time posting my feelings on this...
One thing... I am SICK of making a call to ANY store/company, and having to press 1 for English.... or walking into any store and seeing on the sign MEN (!hombres!)....
I need to stop now. 
Wish jdadamsjr were still around.... I miss reading his posts on the subject.
One thing... I am SICK of making a call to ANY store/company, and having to press 1 for English.... or walking into any store and seeing on the sign MEN (!hombres!)....
I need to stop now. Wish jdadamsjr were still around.... I miss reading his posts on the subject.
Site Administrator
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 623
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Everyone reading this post.
Take 5 minutes and call and write your state senator and congressman tell them your feelings. Don't sit there and say yes that's a good idea, go and do it, vent to them, tell them you are mad and aren't going to take it anymore, I think in the upcoming mid term elections 06 we are going to see this play out and big time, while I am pessimistic that much will change I do think the American people are starting to "push back" in regards to this issue.
Call every day and tell them how you feel, call the companies that are marketing there products in both Spanish and English, tell them you are French, Russian or MUSLIM(that will really get em
and you are offended they don't print those languages on the packaging, ask them why they don't put this on there packaging.
Its time for all of us to stand up and push back.
5 minutes, just 5 minutes to call and tell your congressman, senator how you feel..it can make a difference.
Take 5 minutes and call and write your state senator and congressman tell them your feelings. Don't sit there and say yes that's a good idea, go and do it, vent to them, tell them you are mad and aren't going to take it anymore, I think in the upcoming mid term elections 06 we are going to see this play out and big time, while I am pessimistic that much will change I do think the American people are starting to "push back" in regards to this issue.
Call every day and tell them how you feel, call the companies that are marketing there products in both Spanish and English, tell them you are French, Russian or MUSLIM(that will really get em
and you are offended they don't print those languages on the packaging, ask them why they don't put this on there packaging.Its time for all of us to stand up and push back.
5 minutes, just 5 minutes to call and tell your congressman, senator how you feel..it can make a difference.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 19,098
Likes: 8
From: Great State of Texas
Originally Posted by BigF350
Well, for a start I don't like to refer to these people as "illegal aliens", they are merely people, like you and I who are striving for a better way of life. Here, they are illegal nevertheless and draining our tax, health, and infrastructure, and law enforcement resources. In addition, the bad guys are escalating the number and level of violence.
Should it be my responsibility to victimise them? I think not. I don't blame them for wanting out.
They don't decide to run across a desert, hide in sealed containers, risk thier life in an old fishing boat because they feel like a rush. They do it because that risk is less to them than is the risk of them staying in their own country.
We have had a discussion about what you consider "an American". I would like to add to my post in that thread that I believe people that are "Australia" are not only the current residents of it, but also anyone who wishes to be an Australian. IMO, You have to earn the right to be an American.
I believe there should be an easier way for people to LEGALLY enter the country, but I would like a screening process first. What can they bring to this country? I agree, lets send ours to an easier Australia
A lot of the "illegals" here are the hardest workers I have come across. It has got the point where I rarely see an "Anglo-Saxon" Australian driving a Taxi, picking fruit, working in manufacturing plants etc.
Mainly because a lot of us think we are "beyond" such jobs.
Meanwhile we have 5% of our (and your) population that is unwilling to work. While it may be harsh, I say, keep these "illegals" coming, and ship those continuously dependant upon welfare somewhere else.
Maybe that way they will get a real feel for how "tough" life can be. I like the tough part.
I am not overly concerned if people don't talk in English around me, and if things are labeled primarily in another language other than English. I enjoy being a part of it. If they want my business they must speak in the language of the country they have longed to enter. Your ancestry's culture is much different from ours. You can cross into three countries in Europe in the time it takes to cross Texas. Three different dialects. Been that way for ages. Not the same here. Even with the advent of the "the melting pot" our language has always been American (English) and those that came here to be free strived to learn it. To become American. To many illegals there is no interest to conform...but, protest for us to change our ways....our language...our freedom of SPEECH.
It would be remiss of me to say I disliked seeing Mandorin written on food wrapping, when I am at the moment eating some of the finest Sour and Hot Eel Soup. Eewwwwe
I believe that there are 2 problems here.
1, them actually entering the country illegally, but also them entering the country.
What makes the US so much more attractive over Mexico? The answer is quite simply MONEY.
Or, more to the point, financial inequality. While I don't believe that we should get a tax hike, but I believe it is our responsibility in being wealthy nations to have some form of responsibilty in assisting (and not necassarily financial assitance) our neighbours in building thier economy. It is in OUR best interest to do so - even if it may not be immediately apparent. So you wish to be your brothers keeper?
Create an environment where nobody would want to risk thier life in trying to get to the US of A (or Australia), because life where they live ain't all that bad.
Should it be my responsibility to victimise them? I think not. I don't blame them for wanting out.
They don't decide to run across a desert, hide in sealed containers, risk thier life in an old fishing boat because they feel like a rush. They do it because that risk is less to them than is the risk of them staying in their own country.
We have had a discussion about what you consider "an American". I would like to add to my post in that thread that I believe people that are "Australia" are not only the current residents of it, but also anyone who wishes to be an Australian. IMO, You have to earn the right to be an American.
I believe there should be an easier way for people to LEGALLY enter the country, but I would like a screening process first. What can they bring to this country? I agree, lets send ours to an easier Australia
A lot of the "illegals" here are the hardest workers I have come across. It has got the point where I rarely see an "Anglo-Saxon" Australian driving a Taxi, picking fruit, working in manufacturing plants etc.
Mainly because a lot of us think we are "beyond" such jobs.
Meanwhile we have 5% of our (and your) population that is unwilling to work. While it may be harsh, I say, keep these "illegals" coming, and ship those continuously dependant upon welfare somewhere else.
Maybe that way they will get a real feel for how "tough" life can be. I like the tough part.
I am not overly concerned if people don't talk in English around me, and if things are labeled primarily in another language other than English. I enjoy being a part of it. If they want my business they must speak in the language of the country they have longed to enter. Your ancestry's culture is much different from ours. You can cross into three countries in Europe in the time it takes to cross Texas. Three different dialects. Been that way for ages. Not the same here. Even with the advent of the "the melting pot" our language has always been American (English) and those that came here to be free strived to learn it. To become American. To many illegals there is no interest to conform...but, protest for us to change our ways....our language...our freedom of SPEECH.
It would be remiss of me to say I disliked seeing Mandorin written on food wrapping, when I am at the moment eating some of the finest Sour and Hot Eel Soup. Eewwwwe
I believe that there are 2 problems here.
1, them actually entering the country illegally, but also them entering the country.
What makes the US so much more attractive over Mexico? The answer is quite simply MONEY.
Or, more to the point, financial inequality. While I don't believe that we should get a tax hike, but I believe it is our responsibility in being wealthy nations to have some form of responsibilty in assisting (and not necassarily financial assitance) our neighbours in building thier economy. It is in OUR best interest to do so - even if it may not be immediately apparent. So you wish to be your brothers keeper?
Create an environment where nobody would want to risk thier life in trying to get to the US of A (or Australia), because life where they live ain't all that bad.
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 220
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Not assiminlating into the countries culture is my problem...
If you want your country to end up like France just be tolerant and accepting?
People really need to get a clue. (those with Children even more so)
Unemployment, Immigration, and National Identity
Three major factors are behind the rise in National Front influence. The first factor is unemployment, a now chronic problem in France where 12.8 percent of the working-age population has no job. Almost a quarter of working-age youth under 25 are looking for jobs. The other two factors relate to immigration and France's growing identity crisis. The influx of Moslem immigrants from North Africa, their concentration in suburbs around major cities in France, particularly in the South and East, and the perception among some Frenchmen that these immigrants are not only a major source of crime but also that they are not assimilating properly into French culture (Moslem girls are wearing veils to school, etc.) all creates an identity crisis in France, a country with no tradition of pluralism.
This is compounded by growing unease about the subordination of France and "French civilization" to the European Union. For hundreds of years France has been proud of its "mission civilatrice" ("civilizing mission") where a superior French culture was spread throughout the world by the French government. Now it appears to many Frenchmen that French culture is being subordinated to a vaguely European culture which is dominated by Germany, while at the same time it is being undermined from within by inassimilable Moslem immigrants who, the National Front contends, not only take the jobs of "good Frenchmen" but also are the causes of France's sharp increase in crime. Thus LePen asserts that the National Front, by opposing immigration, alone is the defender of French civilization from within and without; that a vote for the National Front is a vote for French civilization, and against European domination and foreign (read Moslem) immigration. Cleverly, LePen has adopted Joan of Arc, who fought to free France from the English invaders, as the Front's national symbol and organizes special Joan of Arc programs and annual marches.
If you want your country to end up like France just be tolerant and accepting?
People really need to get a clue. (those with Children even more so)
Unemployment, Immigration, and National Identity
Three major factors are behind the rise in National Front influence. The first factor is unemployment, a now chronic problem in France where 12.8 percent of the working-age population has no job. Almost a quarter of working-age youth under 25 are looking for jobs. The other two factors relate to immigration and France's growing identity crisis. The influx of Moslem immigrants from North Africa, their concentration in suburbs around major cities in France, particularly in the South and East, and the perception among some Frenchmen that these immigrants are not only a major source of crime but also that they are not assimilating properly into French culture (Moslem girls are wearing veils to school, etc.) all creates an identity crisis in France, a country with no tradition of pluralism.
This is compounded by growing unease about the subordination of France and "French civilization" to the European Union. For hundreds of years France has been proud of its "mission civilatrice" ("civilizing mission") where a superior French culture was spread throughout the world by the French government. Now it appears to many Frenchmen that French culture is being subordinated to a vaguely European culture which is dominated by Germany, while at the same time it is being undermined from within by inassimilable Moslem immigrants who, the National Front contends, not only take the jobs of "good Frenchmen" but also are the causes of France's sharp increase in crime. Thus LePen asserts that the National Front, by opposing immigration, alone is the defender of French civilization from within and without; that a vote for the National Front is a vote for French civilization, and against European domination and foreign (read Moslem) immigration. Cleverly, LePen has adopted Joan of Arc, who fought to free France from the English invaders, as the Front's national symbol and organizes special Joan of Arc programs and annual marches.
Post Fiend
Joined: Dec 2005
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yes, the whole assimilation into the mainstream should be the concern. i find alot of these immigrants amazing, they come here but yet they want to make everything the same as in their own country, which is why they left it in the first place. my wife is an immigrant(from russia) i married her while she was in russia though, her english is perfect along with a few other languages and she is greatly adapting into the american lifestyle(with the help of my truck!) but yet still retaining her heritage without burdening other people with it. and the trend toward 2 languages is disturbing, many countries are fighting to have one uniform language and here we are slowly splitting into 2, 2 languages, 2 cultures and maybe one day 2 countries.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,221
Likes: 3
Well said, bf250. Borders, Language, Culture, anyone?
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Joined: Aug 2001
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From: South Texas
This problem will NEVER be fixed until those in power go after the ROOT of the problem.
The major driving force behing the illegal immigration problem is greed and money.
As long as employers can get away with hiring illegals at dirt cheap wages, with little or no recourse for their actions, the problem will continue and even escallate.
Now if the law were changed so that the fines for knowingly hiring an illegal ran around 1 million dollars per head, then the risk of losing a business would be so great that those hiring would be forced to check their potential employees legality.
Now I do not want to hear anyone from the business community whine about how difficult this would make it to get workers. If you knowingly hire illegals YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW.
The problem is NOT that business cannot get workers, but that business cannot get workers for what they are willing to pay, so they blindly skirt the law, risking almost nothing if caught, and use illegals to subsidize their profits which only feeds the illegal immigration fire.
Once illegal immigration is stopped, then we can talk about changing the immigration policies of the USA.
Dialtone
The major driving force behing the illegal immigration problem is greed and money.
As long as employers can get away with hiring illegals at dirt cheap wages, with little or no recourse for their actions, the problem will continue and even escallate.
Now if the law were changed so that the fines for knowingly hiring an illegal ran around 1 million dollars per head, then the risk of losing a business would be so great that those hiring would be forced to check their potential employees legality.
Now I do not want to hear anyone from the business community whine about how difficult this would make it to get workers. If you knowingly hire illegals YOU ARE BREAKING THE LAW.
The problem is NOT that business cannot get workers, but that business cannot get workers for what they are willing to pay, so they blindly skirt the law, risking almost nothing if caught, and use illegals to subsidize their profits which only feeds the illegal immigration fire.
Once illegal immigration is stopped, then we can talk about changing the immigration policies of the USA.
Dialtone
Posting Guru
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,246
Likes: 2
From: Hawkeye Country
i say build the fence taller and electrify it, fill the river with gators. i also agree with a eariler post, if these people move here becouse there country is so bad, then why do they want to turn my country into the junk hole they just left.
gee i sure hope this dont make me a racist, but all the mainly white areas in rural iowa that ive lived in were the best places to live. hardly any crime, it was wonderful to live on a street were you never see a cop car, not becouse we dont have police but becouse they've got other places to be, no getting woke up at three in the morning becouse some idiot is driving around blasting his subs. going to small schools were you know everyone and everyone is friendly, being able to leave you car in the driveway with out someone breaking into it, having niehbors that were caring and would lend you a hand in your time of need.
and sure everyone has firearms but we dont use them on each other.
I dont go around pushing my "culture" onto everyone so keep yours off me.
gee i sure hope this dont make me a racist, but all the mainly white areas in rural iowa that ive lived in were the best places to live. hardly any crime, it was wonderful to live on a street were you never see a cop car, not becouse we dont have police but becouse they've got other places to be, no getting woke up at three in the morning becouse some idiot is driving around blasting his subs. going to small schools were you know everyone and everyone is friendly, being able to leave you car in the driveway with out someone breaking into it, having niehbors that were caring and would lend you a hand in your time of need.
and sure everyone has firearms but we dont use them on each other.
I dont go around pushing my "culture" onto everyone so keep yours off me.
Posting Guru
Joined: Sep 2005
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From: Kiefer, Northeastern Okla
The Minuteman org. was here (Tulsa) last week. It was an open forum to discuss local illegal immigration problems. I didn't attend, but read about it in the local paper. They were promoting the formation of a local watchdog group to report contractors and businesses that hire illegals (of any ethnicity) to law enforcement and the IRS. I don't have a problem with this, as long as they go through the proper channels. They don't appear to be a vigilante group, as much as some of the media would want you to believe. They're just fed up with the non-enforcement of the current laws. This week's cover story in Time magazine is "Inside America's Secret Workforce". Worthwhile reading, IMO.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 10,728
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From: Damascus-Boring, Ore
A few thoughts- being from an immigrant family and all...
My folks spoke English with a thick German accent for the entire 60+ years they lived here. When I was a child, we spoke German at home- it isn't uncommon to try to hang onto some of the old habits. Didn't take my folks long to realize that I'd be at a huge disadvantage if I didn't start speaking English, so that's all they spoke since I was about 4 yrs old on.
Of my folks, my Dad hung onto the old German traditions firmly until the end. Maybe having a family cemetery that dates back into the 1300's does that to you, I don't know. He listened to the German radio station, got the German newspaper, drove a Mercedes. Most of his close friends were fellow German immigrants. He loved America, but he always made an effort to stay close to his German roots.
My mom, on the other hand, went out of her way to be a typical upper-middle class American housewife. She drove a big, comfortable American car (should have seen her when she got her first Cadillac). Bought her clothes at Bullocks and Robinsons before we went to Germany- not there, like Dad preferred. I don't think she loved America any more than dad did, but to her Southern California was truly the promised land, and the "old country" had nothing to offer her.
Their son, of course, married a redneck girl. , so the cultural assimilation was pretty complete by then. 
My folks spoke English with a thick German accent for the entire 60+ years they lived here. When I was a child, we spoke German at home- it isn't uncommon to try to hang onto some of the old habits. Didn't take my folks long to realize that I'd be at a huge disadvantage if I didn't start speaking English, so that's all they spoke since I was about 4 yrs old on.
Of my folks, my Dad hung onto the old German traditions firmly until the end. Maybe having a family cemetery that dates back into the 1300's does that to you, I don't know. He listened to the German radio station, got the German newspaper, drove a Mercedes. Most of his close friends were fellow German immigrants. He loved America, but he always made an effort to stay close to his German roots.
My mom, on the other hand, went out of her way to be a typical upper-middle class American housewife. She drove a big, comfortable American car (should have seen her when she got her first Cadillac). Bought her clothes at Bullocks and Robinsons before we went to Germany- not there, like Dad preferred. I don't think she loved America any more than dad did, but to her Southern California was truly the promised land, and the "old country" had nothing to offer her.
Their son, of course, married a redneck girl.
, so the cultural assimilation was pretty complete by then.
Logistics Pro
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 4,221
Likes: 3
Originally Posted by petes79f150
The Minuteman org. was here (Tulsa) last week.....They don't appear to be a vigilante group, as much as some of the media would want you to believe. They're just fed up with the non-enforcement of the current laws. This week's cover story in Time magazine is "Inside America's Secret Workforce". Worthwhile reading, IMO.
Post Fiend
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 19,098
Likes: 8
From: Great State of Texas
Polarbear Your parents were likely very cool.
Tradition is important. Remembering ones heritage is important. I'll bet you could speak of some pretty good German celebrations at your house.
Some of my closest friends Grandparents came from Italy. I sure liked going over to his Grandparents house. Great eats, wine, and stories.
My wife is half Sicilian...her Mommas side of the family could up a pretty good funfest as well...
Tradition is important. Remembering ones heritage is important. I'll bet you could speak of some pretty good German celebrations at your house.
Some of my closest friends Grandparents came from Italy. I sure liked going over to his Grandparents house. Great eats, wine, and stories.
My wife is half Sicilian...her Mommas side of the family could up a pretty good funfest as well...
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 18,787
Likes: 30
From: Melbourne, Aus
Originally Posted by kw5413
Here, they are illegal nevertheless and draining our tax, health, and infrastructure, and law enforcement resources. In addition, the bad guys are escalating the number and level of violence.
IMO, You have to earn the right to be an American.
Originally Posted by BigF350
I believe there should be an easier way for people to LEGALLY enter the country, but I would like a screening process first. What can they bring to this country?
If you enter the country illegally (even if you are classified as a legal refugee under UN laws), you get locked up in a detention centre (think low-medium security prison) in the middle of no-where (Look up Woomera on a Map).
The "illegals", or "refugees" remain there until all paper work can be complete (around 2-3 years).
If they can legally be classified as a refugee under the UN Convention, and aren't considered a threat to the nation, they get to stay.
If they aren't, they get a one way flight home.
To fully understand our countries stance, here is a story from Oct 2001.
450 Afghani Asylum seekers were bound for Australia from Indonesia - they were escaping the Taliban, and were legal refugees.
Thier boat that they were travelling in sunk en route, and at the request of the Australian Government a Norwegian freighter bound for Australia (The Tampa) was asked to pick them up.
When the boat got within 6 na miles from the Australian border, the freighter was ordered to stop. The boat stayed there for a few days. Finally the captain decided to head towards the Australian border. It travelled approx 0.5na mile, at which point it was boarded by 50 SAS troops, and stopped. We then sent these refugees to New Zealand and Nauru.
To my knowledge not 1 of those legal refugees have set foot in this country.
"Easy" we ain't.
I don't for one minute disagree with the current policy in this manner. However I don't have a problem with allowing more people enter through the proper channels of immigration.
(i.e. applying through an Australian embassy in thier respective country - still requiring all background checks etc.)
If they want my business they must speak in the language of the country they have longed to enter. Your ancestry's culture is much different from ours. You can cross into three countries in Europe in the time it takes to cross Texas. Three different dialects. Been that way for ages. Not the same here. Even with the advent of the "the melting pot" our language has always been American (English) and those that came here to be free strived to learn it. To become American. To many illegals there is no interest to conform...but, protest for us to change our ways....our language...our freedom of SPEECH.
We are rather similar in that regard (just we have less people - that same state has 1/10 the population of Texas)
I don't believe they should impose thier language upon us, we speak English, but I also don't believe we should be offended if people speak another language or can't speak English.
I feel it is necessary for people to learn the native language of a country, and I believe in time they will.
If packaging on an item doesn't include English (or at least a picture of the product) I am not going to buy it - how would I know what it is?
I don't think I am alone in this regard. It makes economic sense for them to speak English (for employment) and label things in English - even if the majority of the writing may be in another language.
Originally Posted by BigF350
Sour and Hot Eel Soup.
So you wish to be your brothers keeper?
Prehaps best to explain my reasoning by a quote you are probably familiar with.
Give a man a fish; you have fed him for today. Teach a man to fish; and you have fed him for a lifetime.
Last edited by BigF350; Feb 3, 2006 at 05:12 PM.