I dont see how NAFTA is making all our jobs go over sees. But Do you realize what a comparative advantage is in producing a good...It means a country or a firm or anyone can produce a good at a lower opportunity cost to themselves that we can. I love free trade its awesome, but heres why i think so. Free trade makes countries specialize in what they can produce best compared to others. It bring prices down for all consumers. It gives firms a wider costumer base bring more money to the firms, in turn they hire more employees. Yes i understand it is not always a fair playing field due to governments. But tryin not to get to off topic here, Does anyone have any suggestions of how we can stop the manufactoring from leaving the US?

 

Yes. I do. Look at the tag, if it says Made in China, put it down. Look for Made in USA. Buy those things. Do this as much as possible and convince others to emulate. I'm doing my part.

Is everyone spending every dime they have on absolute necessities? Doesn't anyone have "disposable income"? Can't we buy the fishing poles, plastic sleds and holiday decorations that are made in the US rather than China and in some other store than Walmart? Pay a couple dollars more for a good product made here.

A favorite concept: You get the behavior that you reward.

 

Examine history to see the cycles that have occurred in powerful countries and you will see that what is happening is not unusual. Following WWII much of the world's manufacturing was in shambles, leaving us as the world's supplier of manufactured goods and ushering in an age of prosperity that saw wages, benefits and our middle class soar. As more countries rebuilt their manufacturing base and others established theirs, we continued our binge without coherent plans in place to maintain profitable manufacturing in the face of increasing competition. We have seen Japan's rise to a manufacturing powerhouse despite a lack of domestic raw materials, ships that used to be built in U.S. shipyards are built in South Korea, India is taking many U.S. technical support jobs with a workforce that is educated and dedicated to going from bicycle to automobile and China in a position to challenge us as a market with their controlled growth of about 8% as set forth in 5 and 10 year plans that are in place. Our plans, on the other hand, are based on the bottom line of the current fiscal year. We are turning out fewer scientists and engineers and our graduating seniors test lower than the 6th graders of some other countries. It seems the innovation and entrepreneurial spirit that marked earlier years has gotten old and sickly. The good ol' days of Ozzie and Harriet are gone and no amount of whining is going to bring them back. Our worst enemy is not China, North Korea, Iran ...... or Wal-Mart, it is us. End of rant.
Dono

 

Sounds more like a history lesson that we should pay attention to than a rant. agree 100%

 

Beast,

What was the US trade deficit for 2004? 2005?
Anyone else is welcome to answer too.

Free trade is fine to a point, but when knowledge is eroded with jobs it is a concern of security. If all the machinists are say in Korea because the labor is cheaper there, then this puts the US at a disadvantage. If we are nothing more than a nation of call centers (of course this is India's claim to fame now) then how can we fight a war or defend ourselves? Should the US rely on manufactured goods from other countries because they are better at making M-16's?

Sure, trade has its advantages and is necessary, but all things are best in moderation. The apetite for imported goods needs to be moderated for our own good. This means thinking about what you purchase and where it came from when at Wal-Mart, Target, Walgreens, or wherever.

A sign things are out of control:
I was at Walgreens about two months ago shopping for the usual stuff and noticed that the Walgreens toothpaste was made in India. I promptly grabbed a tube of Crest instead which I can only hope was not made in India. TOOTHPASTE! I mean...come on...surely we can still make toothpaste!

 

While not the most recent data, there is a lot of interesting info on the US Trade Deficit in this Report form the US Congressional Budget Office.

It is very short and readable. Read the report here
...
CONCLUSION Since the trade deficit is an excess of imports over exports and obviously hurts some people, it would seem on the surface to be a problem of international trade that might be fixed or alleviated by the tools of trade policy. In fact, however, it is not. Its cause lies not in international trade but in factors affecting international capital flows. In the case of the recent U.S. trade deficits, those factors are largely of domestic origin--a long decline in saving, a prolonged upswing in the business cycle, and perhaps a number of changes in the U.S. economy that have made it a particularly productive place for international investors to put their funds. Although some people are harmed by the deficits, others are helped. On balance, the continuing deficits have small, beneficial consequences for the United States.

Given the benefits of the trade deficit, there is little if any reason to try to reduce or eliminate it, particularly since it is likely to subside on its own even without any policy response. Further, if one nevertheless wanted to reduce the deficit, trade policy would not be a good way to accomplish that goal. Short of broad restrictions on imports of a magnitude much larger than is normally discussed in policy debates today, the standard tools of trade policy will not have much effect on the deficit. Under restrictions that were severe enough to substantially reduce the deficit, both imports and exports would ultimately decline much more than the deficit, disrupting the economy and causing unemployment in the export sector and possibly elsewhere. In general, the government policies that are most likely to have a large impact on the deficit are not trade policies but budget policy and any other policies that substantially influence saving and investment in the economy. Other effects of those policies, however, are generally more important than their effects on the current-account deficit.

 

This is much like having the Mafia give its conclusions on the effects of crime.

My rant was a little on the dark side, reinforced by the numbers and news I read every day, but there was a bright note in this morning's paper. A local corporation, Texas Instruments(TI), needed a new plant to build wafers for semiconductors and China, Taiwan and Singapore seemed the best locations given the low wages, subsides and tax breaks. Instead, TI told its engineers to design a cost saving, hyper-efficient plant for $180 million less than the cost of its last plant (late 1990's) in order to make the new plant products cost competitive with foreign plants. At first considered impossible, they pulled it off with a new facility that cost 30% less per square foot, reduced utility costs by 20% and water usage by 35%. To entice TI to build in this area, the University of Texas, the state legislature and private sources put up $300 million in a 10-year effort to improve science and engineering studies so TI will have plenty of educated workers. This means 1000 high tech jobs are staying in Texas. If we can somehow generate more specs of light such as this, our future might not be so dark.
Dono

 

Very cool. That's all I have to say about that.

 

gotta love those Texans!

 

here's the article
http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcont....1884b33e.html

It looks word for word what Dono posted. Looks like the plant is eco freindly as well

 

That was the morning paper I referred to. It's good to see things like that happening.
Dono

 

The U.S. trade deficit in 2004 exceeded $630 billion. Ok i know the national security issue very well. And our gov does do a lot to protect the industries it deems vital for national security. I never said this was bad in fact I think its a must. But my main point was never national security, it was GOODS for CONSUMERS. theres a big difference. And the Trade deficit is a must for investments and our economy. Granted you can argue about it shouldnt be this big, but all in all its just a number to an extent.

 

up to page 12 and waaaaaay off topic

 

I agree we a supposed to be bashing Walmart !

 

You guys really don't have to worry about China's "price advantage" for long because I can assure you it won't last long. China today is like Japan in the 60s and the 70s.

Remember back in the those days "Made in Japan" was considered junks. Things change. Remember the Chinese and the Japanese are essentially the same people so whatever the Japanese are capable of the Chinese can do too.

Rather than worrying about Walmart, I think Japan is doing more harm to America than China since Japan is killing American auto industry.

If you think Japan is bad in the 80s (and now), China will be 10 times worse (and bigger) By that time it probably won't even need Wal Mart to sell things in America.

Walmart, no matter how big it is, is still a corporation. It cannot compare with the clout and power of a COUNTRY.

So it's not entirely Wal Mart's fault.