The problem with everyone driving fuel efficient vehicles: Less fuel will be consumed and less taxes will be collected, so the goverment will have to find another way of taxing us(i.e. tax/mile driven). It won't stop. I know the gov. doesn't control the price of oil, but THEY do control how much they tax it, and they do have the EPA under their belt (who for some reason feels we need 25 different blends of gasoline).
I had heard that for every penny the taxes are raised (per gallon) another Billion dollars of revenue is generated(or something close to that). And what do they do with all this revenue: WASTE IT! It sure as hell isn't going back into the SSA accounts they raped. Like others have said: Nothing but GREED.

 

I noticed something last weekend. It was a Tax-Free shopping weekend. Well, in those days, gas shot up a couple of dimes....hmmmmmmmmmm!!

 

Here borrow mine.


[/QUOTE]

Thanks Million

 

Don, I couldn't have said it any better. The difference between today's scenario and any other point in history is that world oil demand keeps climbing and world oil supply can't keep pace. There is a finite supply of oil on this planet and unfortunately those reserves probably aren't within US borders. That said, we are destined to be locked into bidding wars with every other industrialized nation in the world with respect to future supplies. Those oil producing countries have an extremely valuable commodity and will always try to maximize their returns when it comes to selling in a global market. We can build all the refineries we want, but we'll still have to buy the oil. The answer for Americans is very simple: cut our dependency on oil, period. Unfortunately, this will mean drastically changing the vehicles we produce to achieve the highest possible mileage ratings. In other words, we'll have to drive the kind of cars and trucks the rest of the world does.

 

I would not mind driving a hybrid or fuel cell vehicle, just as long as it ain't ugly and tiny, like a good bit of them are.

 

At $2.75 a gallon they are ugly. At $3.75 a gallon they are not as ugly as before. At $5.00 a gallon they are downright pretty.
Dono

 

Well, Chevy made a good move with the Hybrid Silverado. It's still a truck, but it gets much better fuel economy.

 

laf... you call expressing your views crying? you suggest that if a person doesn't like what is going on in their country to move to another country?

well, mr bush loves this type of American... just take whatever is handed to you and move on... or better yet, move away so your views/voice will never be heard!

hmph, i actually responded to that - geesh what a waste of time!

anyways, to those who think their hasn't been plenty done in the way of trying to make a dent in our dependence on foriegn crude... there really has. however, it's never been enough to counteract the "well-entrenched" oil mungering lobbyist and law makers in washington.

yes, many ingenious designs have disappeared and or simply bought out. there is also a "false-fear" that if something knew reduced our dependence on oil our economy would suffer.

there have been no new oil refineries built b/c capitalism / greed has become more important than the american people. don't buy into the falsehood that enviromental consciousness has stiffled refinery expansion either - oil industry r and d has long known it's much more "profitable" to cultivate existing refineries than it is to build new ones. oil companies will site regulations but history shows the pull back on refinery expansion in the "US" started long before the industry began "crying" about regulatory obstacles.

i could go on but i won't.

 

what i would like to do is to enlighten some people as to what this administration "HAS" done along with other facts and maybe, if given the whole picture, some of you will better understand why i point in their direction.

just a few facts about the bush jr. and sr. and this administration that have been affirmed...

- May 2001 - Secretary of State Colin Powell gives $43 million in aid to the Taliban regime, "supposedly" to assist hungry farmers after destruction of their opium crop on orders of the Taliban regime.

- Bush Sr. (former pres. and also former cia head) travels to Saudi Arabia on behalf of the privately owned Carlyle Group (defense contractor - makes money when we go to war), where he meets privately with the Saudi royal family and the bin Laden family.

- Taliban are guests at the Texas headquarters of Unocal to negotiate their support for an oil pipeline to be built. Taliban wouldn't agree to a deal.

- July 15, 2001 - Members of the G8, meeting in Genoa, Italy, discuss the Taliban, pipelines, and the handing over of Osama bin Laden. According to Pakistani representative Ambassador Naiz Naik, the U.S. delegation, led by former Clinton Ambassador to Pakistan Tom Simmons warned of a "military option" if the Taliban did not change position.

- In an exercise, called Operation "Swift Sword" 23,000 British troops are steaming toward Oman. At the same time two U.S. carrier battle groups arrive on station in the Gulf of Arabia just off the Pakistani coast. Also at this time 17,000 U.S. troops and 23,000 NATO troops converge on Egypt for Operation "Bright Star." All of these forces are in place before the first plane hits the WTC.

- An FBI internal document, based upon field notes from Minnesota field agents discloses that the agents had been investigating and had questioned the "20th hijacker," Zacarias Moussaoui. The field notes speculate that Moussaoui, who had been taking flight lessons, might crash an airliner into the WTC. Interestingly, the field agents' requests to obtain a search warrant for his personal computer were denied. French intelligence confirms to the FBI that Moussaoui has ties to terrorist groups and may have traveled to Afghanistan.

- FBI agents in Arizona write a memorandum warning about suspicious activities involving a group of Middle Eastern men taking flight training lessons in Phoenix. The memorandum specifically mentions Osama bin Laden and warns of connections to terrorist activities. The Newsweek report states that agents were in "a frenzy," absolutely convinced that he was "going to do something with a plane."

- Bush Jr. receives classified intelligence briefings at his Crawford, Texas ranch indicating that bin Laden is planning to hijack commercial airliners.

- U.S. ambassador to Pakistan, Christine Rocca (a former CIA officer), meets in Islamabad with a Taliban ambassador and demands the extradition of bin Laden - the last contact in this vein prior to Sept. 11.

- The Dow Jones Industrial Average drops nearly 900 points in the three weeks prior to the attack. A lot of people pulled a lot money out of the market... hmmm!

- bin Laden gets treatment for kidney disease at the American hospital in Dubai and meets with a CIA operative during his treatment. Keep in mind this is after the embassy bombings and bin Laden was wanted.

- Florida Governor Jeb Bush signs a two-year emergency executive order (01-261) making new provisions for the Florida National Guard to assist law enforcement and emergency-management personnel in the event of large civil disturbances, disaster or acts of terrorism.

- Sept. 10, Put options (a speculation that the stock will go down) totaling 4,744 are purchased on United Air Lines stock, as opposed to only 396 call options (speculation that the stock will go up). This is a dramatic and abnormal increase in sales of put options. Many of the United puts are purchased through Deutschebank/A.B. Brown, a firm managed until 1998 by the current executive director of the CIA, A.B. "Buzzy" Krongard.

- Sept. 10, 2001 - Put options totaling 4,516 are purchased on American Airlines as compared to 748 call options.

- No other airlines show any similar trading patterns to those experienced by United and American. The put option purchases on both airlines were 600 percent above normal. This at a time when Reuters (Sept. 10) issues a business report stating, "Airline stocks may be poised to take off."

- Sept. 6-10, 2001 - Highly abnormal levels of put options are purchased in Merrill Lynch, Morgan Stanley, AXA Re(insurance) which owns 25 percent of American Airlines, and Munich Re. All of these companies are directly impacted by the Sept. 11 attacks.

- For 50 minutes, from 8:15 AM until 9:05 AM, with it widely known within the FAA and the military that four planes have been simultaneously hijacked and taken off course, no one notifies the President of the United States. It is not until 9:30 that any Air Force planes are scrambled to intercept, but by then it is too late. This means that the National Command Authority waited for 75 minutes before scrambling aircraft, even though it was known that four simultaneous hijackings had occurred.

- Sept. 9, 2001 - President George W. Bush is presented with detailed war plans to overthrow Al Qaeda, according to U.S. and foreign sources speaking to NBC News.

- Nearly a month before the first reported outbreak, White House officials start taking the powerful antibiotic Cipro to treat anthrax. By the end of the year it will be known that the Ames strain of anthrax used in the attacks against Sens. Leahy and Daschle was produced by CIA programs coordinated through Fort Detrick, the Batelle Memorial Institute and the Dugway Proving Ground.

- Sept. 13, 2001 - China is admitted to the World Trade Organization quickly, after years of unsuccessful attempts.

- The Ashcroft Justice Department takes over all terrorist prosecutions from the U.S. Attorneys office in New York, which has had a highly successful track record in prosecuting terrorist cases connected to Osama bin Laden.

- Oct. 10, 2001 - The Pakistani newspaper The Frontier Post reports that U.S. Ambassador Wendy Chamberlain has paid a call on the Pakistani oil minister. A previously abandoned Unocal gas pipeline project from Turkmenistan, across Afghanistan, to Pakistan is now back on the table "in view of recent geopolitical developments."

- Oct. 29, 2001 - The Bush Administration drafts "an executive order that would usher in a new era of secrecy for presidential records and allow an incumbent president to withhold a former president's papers even if the former president wanted to make them public," wrote the Washington Post. The order also required members of the public to prove "at least a demonstrated, specific need'" for a president's papers to be released. Critics contend this would overturn the 1978 Presidential Records Act, which releases documents after 12 years. The White House maintained that a Supreme Court decision in 1977 allows presidents various privileges for their records.

- Newly appointed Afghani Prime Minister Hamid Karzai is revealed as being a former paid consultant for Unocal.

- President Bush appoints Zalmy Khalilzad as a special envoy to Afghanistan. Khalilzad, a former employee of Unocal, also wrote op-eds in the Washington Post in 1997 supporting the Taliban regime.

- Attorney General John Ashcroft recuses himself from the Enron investigation because Enron had been a major campaign donor in his 2000 Senate race. He fails to recuse himself from involvement in two sitting federal grand juries investigating bribery and corruption charges against ExxonMobil and BP Amoco, which have massive oil interests in Central Asia. Both were major Ashcroft donors in 2000.

- The BBC reports that Afghanistan is about to close a deal for construction of the $2 billion gas pipeline to run from Turkmenistan to Pakistan and India. The story states, "work on the project will start after an agreement is expected to be struck" at a summit scheduled for the end of the month. Unocal will build the pipeline.

Ok, these are the facts that could be substantiated - not false claims or conspiracy theories - facts. Now consider the situation we are in now... can you honestly say you aren't at least a little concerned?

 

tb40nd: That is a great timeline. You missed one important fact!

That CLINTON and his regime new where that SOB bin ladin was excactly and for fact twice during the time he was a wanted man and did nothin!!

this started some time ago and it is sad that we as a people cant get together enough to stop it from happening again!

 

Good point Jim- this has been playing out for over three decades, both parties, and more presidents than we can shake a stick at. As with all problems, placing blame doesn't bring a solution any closer.

 

tb40nd:

And how are all those things related? Bin Laden should have been had when the WTC was hit the first time, he should have been had after the embassy bombings, he should have been had after the Cole bombing. What is the point. Everyone dropped the ball on Bin Laden.

Enron and all the other companies give tons to both sides. All buisness play both sides against the middle to get what they want. The owner of my ambulance company gives heavily to both Dems and Repubs to get things he wants. EVERYONE does it. It looks bad when you point out what one side does and ignore what the other side has done. When you don't show the whole story you can make people look bad at will.

Clinton had a bunch of small price hicks and hicups in oil supply to deal with. Every now and then he released stratigic reserves to bring prices down. Bush has been filling the reserves, which is good concidering the world today. We should have a robust reserve for the worst when it happens.

Remember early in Bush's first term when Bush got Russia to flood the market and we had record low oil prices. Too bad that can't happen all the time. Remember that most of this started with striking workers in Venezulea, that is when prices really started moving up years ago.

What was the point about the pipe line in Afganistan? And the whole Taliban connection? The Taliban before 9/11 was the ruling government, and we deal with unfriendly governments all the time, um China comes to mind.

All I see when reading your post is anti Bush venom. Anger I think is better placed at the oil compani

es making record profits off the working class.

 

IMHO this thread is getting a little too political.

Maybe tone it down a bit.

This thread is suppose to be about gas price rants.

 

I agree way to political. There are many reason for prices being high and most of them have nothing to do with politics unless you count taxes.

It is true there is alot of oil left but we are approaching our pumping limitation. When and if this happens oil will truely skyrocket. One major hiccup in any of the large oil producing countries will mean that we cannot meet current demand and prices again take off.

Another thing affecting oil prices is the ability to move it. The tank capacity is not adaquate for todays demand. After the EXXon Valdiz accident all single hull tankers have to be retired before before 2008 if I remember correctly. There are no new tankers scheduled for completion until 2010.

As has already been mentioned we have not built a new refinery since 1970. In fact we have shutdown about 80 of them. Even if we had the oil we cannot refine it fast enough. Every refinery is at capacity today.

Last but not least is the Saudi's are hating this. Today they have only one thing going for them and that is oil, no oil no income. Once the price went over 40 dollars a barrel almost every well in the world starts pumping again. The hard to pump wells and the higher sulfer oil becomes cost effective again. At the prices we are at today oil shale and sand reserves are start to look good also. Prices at this level are also what is spurring the development of alternatives like bio-diesel.

IMO I would much rather have the market place decide the direction we go in energy usage than some politician. I don't feel that subsidized transpotation is the answer to the current problems but that is want most polititcians think.

 

TD40...you're laughable...What out!!! the black helicopters are circling above....Its all a big conspiracy...

Moron.