Using Acetone as a fuel additive
Elder User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 545
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From: Shreveport, La.
Originally Posted by arninetyes
I keep reading remarks like "teardrop in an ocean" and other things. Some people seem to be implying that the percentage of acetate is so small that it couldn't have any real effect.
The teardrop remark being used (if you'll read the context it's being used in) is referring to the acetone in the tank of fuel is no where near strong enough to do any damage to seals, if you're presuming it would do damage in the first place, some unaware posters here seem to think so.
But it is enough to chemically change the properties of the fuel.
Don't think anyone is in need of math to the .inth degree lessons here.
Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2004
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Originally Posted by KenB
Don't think anyone is in need of math to the .inth degree lessons here.
I don't think acetate in dilute concentrations will harm the fuel lines or other synthetics in the fuel system (really would like someone well-versed in O-chem to tell us about that one). But you would be surprised at the low concentration of the wrong material that can destroy such things. For instance, it doesn't take much ethanol in fuel to destroy natural rubber fuel lines - it just takes longer if the concentration is very low.
I really wasn't concerned about fuel lines - my concern is reduction in lubricity and possible damage to expensive injectors. As acetone is a powerful solvent, the changes to the fuel might (only might) be capable of doing such things. Since my engine is worth thousand$$, I'd like to know more...
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
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From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Arninetyes I am of the opinion that with the altered state of the fuel, being that it evaporates more readily with the acetone in it, that your combustion chambers have less wall wash and fuel quench than with non-acetate fuel. I conced that gassers are far more prone to this than diesels. But every little bit helps. I'm convinced that it only does the engine good IF USED PROPERLY and not overdosed. More is not better, it's worse. The end result is less fuel contamination in the crankcase. Possibly leading to the ability to extend your oil change intervals for those of you who want to do that. Any Blackstone users out there care to participate?
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,854
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From: New Hampshire
no difference in water temp.. no difference in performance... my mule does seem to wait longer before downshifting going up hills at 45 - 50 mph... this may be due to having less foot into the throtle... and that may be what is help fuel milage... spend more time in a higher gear turning less rpm per mile = better mileage... just a thought... there is no proof of that...
Senior User
Joined: Mar 2004
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From: Mi, Middle of the Mitten
Originally Posted by arninetyes
I keep reading remarks like "teardrop in an ocean" and other things. Some people seem to be implying that the percentage of acetate is so small that it couldn't have any real effect.
So, let's look at the math. There are 8 pounds per gallon of water, or 128oz per gallon, but diesel weighs less than water. Diesel is listed as having a density of 0.827g/ml compared to water at 0.998g/ml. Doing some quick math we get 0.827/0.998. In other words, diesel weighs only 83% percent as much as water per unit volume. So, that means that diesel weighs about 106oz per gallon, or about 1060 oz per 10 gallons.
Then, you add 3 oz acetate. The ratio is then 3/1060, or 0.0028, or, in more usable terms, 0.28%. So, if you maintain the ratio of acetate to diesel fuel of 3oz per ten gallons, that means that over 1/4 of a percent of the fuel is acetate.
That actually is significant. Don't forget that in most states you are legally drunk with 0.08% blood alcohol - less than 1/3 the concentration. Oh, yes, I know. They aren't the same thing. That isn't the point.
The point is that the concentration of 0.28% is sufficient to alter the chemistry, and/or physical properties of fuel.
In point of fact, I add 3oz of Lucas fuel additive to each 10gallons of fuel in my truck (to improve lubricity of the crappy modern diesel fuel). Without it, the injectors clatter loudly. With it, the injectors are much, much quieter - not quite 6.0 quiet, but still, there is a significant difference.
I would be concerned that such a quantity of acetate could reduce lubricity and contribute to injector wear. I'll be interested in long term results.
So, let's look at the math. There are 8 pounds per gallon of water, or 128oz per gallon, but diesel weighs less than water. Diesel is listed as having a density of 0.827g/ml compared to water at 0.998g/ml. Doing some quick math we get 0.827/0.998. In other words, diesel weighs only 83% percent as much as water per unit volume. So, that means that diesel weighs about 106oz per gallon, or about 1060 oz per 10 gallons.
Then, you add 3 oz acetate. The ratio is then 3/1060, or 0.0028, or, in more usable terms, 0.28%. So, if you maintain the ratio of acetate to diesel fuel of 3oz per ten gallons, that means that over 1/4 of a percent of the fuel is acetate.
That actually is significant. Don't forget that in most states you are legally drunk with 0.08% blood alcohol - less than 1/3 the concentration. Oh, yes, I know. They aren't the same thing. That isn't the point.
The point is that the concentration of 0.28% is sufficient to alter the chemistry, and/or physical properties of fuel.
In point of fact, I add 3oz of Lucas fuel additive to each 10gallons of fuel in my truck (to improve lubricity of the crappy modern diesel fuel). Without it, the injectors clatter loudly. With it, the injectors are much, much quieter - not quite 6.0 quiet, but still, there is a significant difference.
I would be concerned that such a quantity of acetate could reduce lubricity and contribute to injector wear. I'll be interested in long term results.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
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From: Carhenge
I was about to say the same thing, craven. Ounces can be either weight or volume, one of the confusing things about our English system. There are 128 ounces in a gallon on a volume basis, and I suspect that guys are adding acetone based on volume rather than weight.
I have found that when I "drive with less foot in the throttle", my pickup still accelerates well and I get better mileage without adding acetone. I get better mileage, plus I save the money you guys are spending on acetone. Must be some sort of telekenisis making the fuel more volatile just because I'm thinking about it.
ON EDIT: I forgot to mention that when I drive with "less foot in the throttle" My pickup also runs quieter! Amazing!
I have found that when I "drive with less foot in the throttle", my pickup still accelerates well and I get better mileage without adding acetone. I get better mileage, plus I save the money you guys are spending on acetone. Must be some sort of telekenisis making the fuel more volatile just because I'm thinking about it.
ON EDIT: I forgot to mention that when I drive with "less foot in the throttle" My pickup also runs quieter! Amazing!
Last edited by clux; May 25, 2005 at 07:52 AM.
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Posting Guru
Joined: Dec 2004
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Originally Posted by Craven
Your mixing apples and oranges. Diesel fuel by weight- acetone by volume.
Posting Guru
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Originally Posted by clux
Ounces can be either weight or volume, one of the confusing things about our English system. There are 128 ounces in a gallon on a volume basis, and I suspect that guys are adding acetone based on volume rather than weight.
Senior User
Joined: Nov 2003
Posts: 200
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From: Lamar, SC
I have to stick with the facts with this one, I wish someone actually knew if it made any difference in fuel economy, I saw one who said 3 mpg better with acetone. I also saw 3 ounces per 10 gallons, which I have to say does not seem like a whole lot. I have tried it also and truck ran a whole lot smoother or less chattier than before. I have not gotten a good test, since I pull different trailers and weights but I did notice the change in sound, and less flutter. Don't go askin why cause I do not know, but without acetone had some turbo flutter, with it none even pulling. I don't know why or if anyone else has noticed this but please advise. Thanks.
Postmaster
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,854
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From: New Hampshire
quick update... filled up b4 towing this past weekend... no acetone in the tank and a little over 3/4 of the tank used... 13.92 mpg... a little better than the last tank without acetone... but it has been warmer... that helps... plus we are on summer diesel now... i have less than a quarter tank left... when that is gone, i will fill up again and put acetone in... i should be able to use that whole tank up before i go towing again so i should be able to give you some good numbers on that tank...
Fleet Owner
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 25,090
Likes: 1,112
From: Rio Rico, AZ.
Originally Posted by DaBigTow
What I'm hearing here is that, subjectively, it's taking less foot pressure to maintain a given speed. Are you noticing lower boost or EGTs? How about water temp?
On the truck there is reduced diesel cackle on the freeway and a very quiet idle. Can't tell a differance on the amount of throttle for the truck.
Post Fiend
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 10,600
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From: Carhenge
Originally Posted by spitball
I have to stick with the facts with this one, I wish someone actually knew if it made any difference in fuel economy, I saw one who said 3 mpg better with acetone.
What needs to be tried is a "blind" test, have someone other than the driver either add or not add acetone over several tanks, and the person doing the driving doesn't know if there is acetone in the tank. Then the person driving has to "guess" by the sound and the power if there is or isn't acetone in the tank when they don't know for certain it has been added. If someone can consistently "guess" it right based on sound and driveablility, and the mileage is only better when there is acetone in the fuel, I might start to believe.
Junior User
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 83
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From: Edmond, Okla.
I use Acetone every day in the hospital lab where I work. It is primarily used as a drying agent for tissues and Parasite preps but there are several other uses but for this discussion they don't pertain. Acetone by it's nature is very volatile (it catches fire really easily). I wonder if this isn't some of the reason for the increase in mileage. Maybe there is more energy released in combustion, ie... the diesel and the acetone? Maybe the Acetone burning faster helps the diesel burn more completely thus more energy released. I do worry that the acetone might reduce the lubricity of the diesel. That would not bode well for the injectors. Since Acetone is a drying agent I also wonder about the rubber and the gaskets, although this would not become apparent short term. As several other folks have said. I'll just hide and watch to see how all this shakes out and keep using my Power Service as an additive.
Good Luck to all those experimenters!!!
Paul
Good Luck to all those experimenters!!!
Paul