For those who asked why aren't 12 passenger vans included in the lot when looking at 15 passenger rollovers, it looks like the NHTSA asked the same question because the vehicles are essentially the same.

http://www.nhtsa.gov/cars/problems/s...15passvan.html

 

Not to burst your bubble, but duallys are the LAST thing you want on ice. You will have less weight per square inch and be all over the road. As a side note, proper loading of an extended van is critical to stability. The far back seat (or that area behind the rear axle) should only be loaded last after the rest of your space is used up. When I was hauling the soccer kids, I actually took out the rear seat unless I needed it because they always wanted to sit there first.

 

They are the same wheelbase but a different length. The 15 passenger has the "overhang" from the rear axle to accomodate the extra seat. This is where the problem comes in and why the loading is critical as I mentioned in the previous post. The rear axle is essentially the "pivot point" in the case of a sudden shift in direction. If there is a lot of weight behind the rear axle and not in the front, you have a "squirrelly" situation where the back wants to pull the van around further and causes the sideways action and rollover. This will actually be worsened by the lighter springs and tire duty rating of a 250 or especially a 150 in an extended van. Think of it as a teeter totter when loading. The weight you put behind the rear axle will "lift" or "offset" that equal amount of weight the same distance from the axle in the front of the axle. You can see why you don't want to load that rear area until all the rest of the van is loaded.
[Ken... your van will be more stable with fully loaded seats with the rear seat removed instead of the one behind the driver.]

If you want to reduce (or eliminate) these tendencies, use E (10 ply) rated tires aired to specs (stiffer side walls), load weight forward as much as possible, use a 350 with the heaviest duty gas charged shocks you can buy, and don't drive like it's a sports car.

The rollovers are a result of the users' negligence (even though they don't want to admit it or aren't even aware of it), not the equipment (unless there were bad shocks, tires, etc.).

I used to drive truck for years and hauled long loads on a variety of equipment so have a little experience with loading and handling characteristics of vehicles.
Cheers

 

I prefer the sliders with no question. I've had multiple vans with both and just recently went back to one with the slider.... one of my favorite improvements over the last one. I absolutely hated the 60-40 doors.... always in the way .
I also had passengers try to close the 60-40's in the wrong order ... hard on doors!

 

Wow, I figured I better get at least one vote in for the 60/40 doors.

We had a Full size Van with slider for about 12 years. Pros were in parking lots, a single big window (it had a screened sliding window), it made the van look symetrical. Cons were camping (which is what we use the van for amongst other things) since the door was always open, on hills the door was a chore to slide either open or closed depending on direction van was pointing, the alignment would not stay in place and the door started binding when being opened,and you have to get a good slide going to get the back part of the door to latch otherwise only the front latch would partially engage.

Our current van is a 2003 4x4 E350 XLT extended with 60/40 doors. I like the two doors better for camping since only one door has to be open meaning fewer bugs inside, I can swing the doors back all the way with fold down trays in the doors to hold the drinks, I have no problems swinging them open all the way to load things through the full size opening, they are great on hills (we live in San Francisco so it IS an issue for us), they are easy to close by kids and elderly parents, and when the flares go on the van I do not have to worry about getting the extender for the slider. The only cons I have are the hinges are on the outside exposed to weather and dirt, the smaller window does not swing out (like one can get any air from the swing out windows any way), and the van does not look symetrical. I have not had any issues in parking lots being able to open a door or load something. Most of the time what I am loading is all going in the back anyway.

So two sides to the viewpoint, as with most things it is a judgement call and what your needs are

 

That brings up another point I forgot to mention. On hills or even a slight hill I always had to have a bungee cord hooked to the "40" door and the rear wheel hub cap to hold it open. How can that be an advantage??????

I hate 60/40 doors.... that's one reason I took a plane from Oregon to Utah to drive a van with slider and V-10 back home!

 

QuadVan said it quite eloquently - It all depends upon your needs. No matter which one you choose, there will be a case where the other selection would have been a better choice. I've had both and like the slider better in most cases but I am glad to have the split doors since I now have the duallies installed.

 

The 15 pass and 12 pass have the same overhang with the same body, just different seat configuration, there's no rear-most seat in the 12 pass. I agree with all the tire/susp tricks. In fact I have wanted to drop the ride height of mine for more than a year. Low profile tires, lower, stiffer front coils, rear spring flip kits, and maybe some limiting straps ?? Like the desert racers use ?? It seems to be that the E-350 initially understeers, then goes into a snap-oversteer that an inexperienced driver can't catch. Normally that means spinning out, but the transition from understeer to violent oversteer compresses, the rebounds the opposite side springs causing the front wheel to lift which then carries the rear with it resulting in a roll-over, I've watched the videos over and over. A firmer suspension with something to limit axle drop and stiffer sidewalls along with a reduced center of gravity has to resolve 90% of the roll issues. Besides, it would look mucho malo, Ken

 

But parked downhill with the slider is a pain, you can't keep it open, and uphill that sliding door is too heavy for kids, so !!! You can't win EITHER way !! But the slider seems to have less evils than the split doors I guess. Remote control open and close sliding doors on either side would be perfect if I had to pick one eh ? Ken

 

There are extended 12 passenger vans and standard length 12 passenger vans. InE350_Oregon's comment you quoted I'm sure he was comparing standard body vans to extended vans. When comparing extended body vans both 12 and 15 passenger models have the same issue if you load too much weight at the far rear of the van regardless of the actual number of seats. It all comes down to preventing the pendulum effect when making sudden turns. The best way to load any vehicle is to place most of the weight as close to the center of gravity as you can get it rather than at one of the far ends. Placing alot of weight in the far rear of an extended van makes it act more like a pendulum and makes it harder to control.

 

I thought I heard something that it was only an issue with ford and dodge extended vans, for the roll overs. chevy 15 passenger vans were not an issue cause they have their rear wheels at the rear like the shorter vans. But like it has been said before these rollovers are driver that are driving them like cars. Now isn't there more suv rollovers?

We have 5 extended ford vans 4 15's and 1 12. All have the 50/50 doors. We transport disabled adults with them. We used to have some sliding doors and we won't get them again. They do not hold up as well with the constant opening closing all day.

Now with these vans we havn't had anyone even come close to starting to roll one. And these things run about 25,000 miles a year each, with many drivers. We also do not run what ford recommends for air pressure. We run e rated tires and run them at the max cold pressure on the tire 80psi. Wasn't it the explorer that had roll over problems that ended with ford redoing door stickers with a higher air pressure?

And now refering to vanangels.com the rollover resistance of them, is it any different than a car? And how can a heavier bus body built on the same frame as an extended van with single wheels be any better? Yes the bus body has better cage framing than a regular van which holds up to rollovers. But a bus body has more weight higher up then a regular van and would be more likley to rolling over. I think they might want to rethink what they write before they write it.

 

Ken04,

We have a 2003 Ext E350 15 pas with 4x4 IFS, stock ride height. (see quadvan via google, I am not affliated with them, just own one and I liked the moniker ) The suspension we opted for was a sport suspension which could easily be set up on 2WD vans:

Dual Bilsteins on each front corner, single Bilstein each rear corner, 1 1/2 inch Hub Centric spacers at the rear to match the rear wheel track to front, a 1 1/8 inch rear IPD sway bar and a Bilstein Steering dampner to finish it off. Wheels and tires are stock. Front sway bar is stock unit. I think you could do the whole package for just around $1k.

This van handles like a dream in the twisties, solid and stable. Now of course I have not four wheel drifted this thing nor pushed it to where we might get a roll over.

We are careful loading (no roof rack) and I have moved the four person bench up one row ( re-set the seat brackets in the floor with solid backing plates) since I want to have a storage area behind the last row and who needs carry more than 12 people anyway! When I have time I am going to re- set the brackets for the first row back so as to provide great leg room for nine since we hardly ever have more than that. So it will be 2 front, 3 middle and 4 back, all with limo like leg room.

Back to suspension, if you want a alick set up check out what I listed above. Huge difference!

 

I have the slider (on to vans) small children have no problem once they figure out the opening. 1997 design pretty well protected from dirt. Only one ball point pen in it once easily removable. The darn thing slides closed almost by itself once you release it. Almost like it was designed that way. Most times it closes before I am ready. I have one that someone stripped ALL the parts out of including locking mechanism Anyone have all the parts I will buy. Best of luck with your new one.

 

QUADVAN
Thank you for that link, I really like what I see there will call them Monday.