I have followed this interest. Loyality is fickle. In my younger days I only owned chevys starting with a 55 1/2 ton and ending with a 83 Blazer. If you would of told me there was a better manufacturer out there I would of said your crazy. Years of trouble free operation. But the Blazer was in the shop 3 times for 3 trannies in 9 months. That was the end of my love affair with chevy other than my 70 camaro.

I have owned mostly Fords since, never had a lemon and the recalls have been very minor in nature. I've also owned Honda's and Toyota cars and they have also had there recalls. In most cases except for trucks, I'll not keep any vehicle much past 100k. I have yet to have a Ford truck not get me to 200K. First thing is the wife most of the time will drive the car and it must be 100% reliable and IMO after 100k regardless of manufacturer this is when troubles start to show up.

In cars the last 3 where Toyotas, 2 camerys and the last being an Avalon. After the Avalon I doubt I will own another Toyota. Not only was this car very overpriced for what you got, a family of 4 with luggage would botttom the suspension at speed. It did not feel safe though i really didn't have any problems with it in the 20k I owned it.

Lucky for me that we are probably done with cars forever except maybe a sports car. My next purchase will be a Super Crew and that holds 4 with no problem. Other than the Hybrids there is not a family car out there today that really grabs my eye.

Someone mentioned:
No we dont pay for it. We can't afford it. Just look at the history of the auto industry. At one time we had custom coach builders. The reason they don't exist today is simple cost. If you want the best design and materials you would pay at least double for what you get today and that is the low side. Rebates, etc really don't mean much to the manufacturers. There is a cost to excess stock. Also there are enough people out there that pay list price for a vehicle, in fact most would be my guess.

 

If it explains the sales strength of the Accord and the Camry, then does it say anything for the F-150? Does it mean that the average consumer sees more quality in new Ford trucks than the competition?

tmyers, loyalty isn't too fickle. If it was, then the F-series wouldn't have owned for so many years in a row.

 

Its only fickle from the point of few that most people only look at there last vehicle and brand a whole company has bad if the current car is bad. Just like me with the Chevy I stopped owning them becasue of one bad apple. I would think most people are this way. With age and education though I understand that anything can be screwed up so I tend to take the longer view now. Thats why I only own Ford trucks and nobodies cars.

 

I think the key word here is "value," not quality. Tmyers had a great point- if we were to pay for absolute top-drawer, no compromise quality and workmanship, few of us could afford to think about a new vehicle. Like you mentioned, they ain't exactly cheap now, ya know? How would you feel about a $100K pickup?

re: F150. Hey, I own one, love it, and I'm not even in the Ford biz (go figure). Back when I didn't think the Ford was the best PU on the market, but I did think it was a great value. After all the years and miles, I still do. Judging from the sales numbers, I've got lots of company. Ditto my Grand Marquis. That car is a good example of what I'm talking about. Bro-in-laws Lexus LS400 is a better car by almost any measure- but it's not twice as good, and that's what the dollar difference was. More, if you factor in upkeep and repairs.

I don't like my truck- I love the darned thing. Been a long time since i could say that about a car.

 

Funny, we had an '84 Cadillac Eldorado that was the car from you-know -where. Been 20 years, and I still would have a hard time buying another one. I know it's not rational, but why tempt fate?

 

Oh, I agree with y'all 100%, I'd never have a car unless I had 2 or 3 trucks and just needed something cheap for mileage.

 

Ahh sales tax. Dont have to pay sales tax here. I see the point though.

I have owned some very trouble free vehicles. Its nice to get a good one. Even at high miles they still had no problems.

 

My rule of thumb:
Don't buy any model untill it is on it's third model year. By then the bugs should be worked out and you have 2 years of history to research. This has worked well for me.
Yes I am brand loyal I have talked way to much crap about other brands to ever live down buying anything but Ford

 

Im safe. I tend not to put other peoples trucks down. We all have personal tasteds and beliefs we must follow. Just cause I dont agree dont make it not right. Its like religion and politics. Everybody has their own thing.

 

I humbly disagree... (that we don't pay for it and can't afford it). the custom coach builder is a GREAT example of what I'm talking about - they went out of business because people quit buying them.

If we (collectively) quit buying the junk...then the automakers would be forced to improve quality to sell their product or they'd go out of business.

We've been playing " quality catch-up" to the Japanese automakers for years now, but we still have plenty of repeat buyers who are rewarding the "junk-makers" by patronizing them (myself included). After the problems I had with my 98 Ranger, I swore I'd not buy another new Ford - and I haven't... but I DID buy my wife an 02 Explorer (with 14k miles on it) from a Ford dealer.
I'm even thinking of buying a new Mustang in a few years...sheesh - as long as there are plenty of folks like me (and there are)...the junk-makers will enjoy an extensive livelihood

 

They did not per say go out of business because people quit buying its because Henry could build something almost as good for 1/4 the price. And that is the whole point. People will always go for resonable quality at a good price over outstanding quality at an exobinate price. If the oppisiste was true we would all be driving Rolls Royce.

People must have transportation and for most people that is all it is. They buy based on a price point, how big there wallet is. For the most part I think the americans have caught up. In almost ever model category there offering is cheaper, you get better financing deals and parts are cheaper. This is the same way the Japanese got into this market was by providing a ok car at an excellent price. Over the years they have improved there quaility at the cost of now there cars cost more than ours.

Is there a market for a top quality car, sure but it comes at a price. Many people think that the Cummins is a better engine than the PSD. Almost no one would argue that the dodge chassis is better than the Fords. Well for 14-17k you can put a Cummins in your brand new Ford. Question is how many people are going to spend 60k for a new truck?

 

What's the difference???

People quit buying BECAUSE Henry could build something "almost as good" for 1/4 the price...

Either way...people quit buying! If those custom coach builders still had customers...would they have gone out of business??? I don't think so...

That's like saying...Boeing would stop making passenger liners just because someone could figure out how to do it cheaper and "almost as good" even if they still had contracts to fill. The fact that people started buying those "almost as good" cars, drove the coach builders out of business.

If we settle for junk, the junk-makers will stay in business. If we quit buying junk...they'll quit making it and start improving their quality to the point of regaining their customer base...OR they'll go out of business.

This is all hypothetical, of course, because too many consumers are alright with "sub-par" quality standards. We'll never see this materialize...just like gas prices - we could never get enough people to boycott when the prices soar from gouging to let those in charge know we're not going to take it.

I guess I'm missing the point or something

 

Or the junk makers hold the line or even reduce the price of there product while to quality makers price themselves out of the market. This happens alot.

No your not missing the point and it is hypothetical but there are things that can be done. Boycotts almost never work and if you are talking transpotation its double. Most people can't afford the pain of something like that. But you can partake in surveys, write letters and make sure that said companies need to improve. It will always be a trade of in quality vs cost, that is just the reality of the deal. But that does not mean there is no room for improvement while keeping costs down.

 

The manufacturers are being seriously criticized for undercutting the price of the products they buy to install in their vehicles. They are forcing prices so low that quality will soon fail.

 

Not to derail this thread, but I just saw the neighbors Mercedes S500 come home on a flatbed tow truck tonight. Can hardly wait to hear what happened this time. Poor guy must be fit to be tied- same car broke a connecting rod this summer. He once told me he stopped buying American cars because of the poor quality. Other neighbor across the street has a late model Audi A6. I've had to jump that thing twice now with the old Ford (it keeps going dead- cause unknown). He once asked me why I drove a Grand Marquis, since there were so many other "better" cars available. Yeah, right. Between the Ford and the Mercury I've got over 270,000 breakdown-free miles accumulated. I don't think either of those guys are out of warranty yet.

(can ya tell we're the rednecks of the "hood?")