FE446 power issue, MSD stuff.
Elder User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 938
Likes: 1
From: North Carolina
I am not a fan of MSD. Tried one of there coils once and what a POS! I loved my mallory dizzy, til it was stolen! I had to walk home and get my stock dizzy out of the garage and put it on the truck to get it going. I know run a petronix unit on it. Ill have to chain it down with a padlock or something so this doeseant happen again. Anyway, go with Mallory it is my beleive there equipement is much better quailty then MSD.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
Originally Posted by RapidRuss
Heya Greg, did ya ever get your MSD situation fingered out?
not really. It seems to be running a little better. But it still seems to be weak at higher revs.
I'm going to put the timing light on it again, and see where I'm at. Seei f it is still sticking. I may change the stop bushing, to get somemore total advance...but that takes a good bit more work than just changing the advacne springs. I pretty much have to pull the dizzy or the AC compressor.
Where do you guys think I should be for max advance with this engine setup? What advance and at what RPM? 36 deg at 3000rpm, more?... less?.....any help appreciated.
I'd love to see 14s on Wed. night :-)
Lead Driver
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 9,893
Likes: 12
From: Ohio
I'd try around 38 total at or near 2500 rpm. You basically want as much timing as motor will take WITHOUT knocking/pinging. This also goes in hand with 1/4 miles time/speed. You basically turn it up til it makes NO improvement or starts to slow down, or until it knocks. Then back it off.
Here's a thought. Pick up one of those g-meters that plug into cig lighter. Find a nice deserted road and play around. That way you don't have to go to track to find some improvements. Those new versions are pretty cheap anymore, I bought the one from summit like 15 yrs ago(Vericom was the brand) and it was $250, now they are like $50.
Here's a thought. Pick up one of those g-meters that plug into cig lighter. Find a nice deserted road and play around. That way you don't have to go to track to find some improvements. Those new versions are pretty cheap anymore, I bought the one from summit like 15 yrs ago(Vericom was the brand) and it was $250, now they are like $50.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
Originally Posted by Freightrain
I'd try around 38 total at or near 2500 rpm. You basically want as much timing as motor will take WITHOUT knocking/pinging. This also goes in hand with 1/4 miles time/speed. You basically turn it up til it makes NO improvement or starts to slow down, or until it knocks. Then back it off.
Here's a thought. Pick up one of those g-meters that plug into cig lighter. Find a nice deserted road and play around. That way you don't have to go to track to find some improvements. Those new versions are pretty cheap anymore, I bought the one from summit like 15 yrs ago(Vericom was the brand) and it was $250, now they are like $50.
Here's a thought. Pick up one of those g-meters that plug into cig lighter. Find a nice deserted road and play around. That way you don't have to go to track to find some improvements. Those new versions are pretty cheap anymore, I bought the one from summit like 15 yrs ago(Vericom was the brand) and it was $250, now they are like $50.
It's not a big expense to go to the track here. It's like $15 for test and tune night. On wednesdays, I can get in a lot of passes. I plan to go this wed. and take the tools needed to adjust the timing and a variety of springs and bushings ;-)
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
Originally Posted by EgoMan
Doesnt msd have an ignition module that has the timing advance and retard placed on a dial you can mount in the cab?
Fleet Mechanic
Joined: May 2004
Posts: 1,436
Likes: 0
From: Montana
LOL... I know ive seen them before...I was thinking it would be a good way to help test and tune quickly....but then again Im not sure if it does It in the way your needing.
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Lead Driver
Joined: Apr 2001
Posts: 6,175
Likes: 21
From: Texas
well gyus, I did a little more trouble shooting today.
It looks to be at fuall advance by 2500rpm. It's only at about 32 BTDC at max advance. The return is working. Initial advance is just be ow 20 BTDC. So, I think I need t ogo to the next smaller stop bushing on the MSD Dizzy to get the total advance a few degrees higher.
But the real problem, after a second or so at higher RMPs, the timing starts to jump around. I think that there is a cross-talk problem at higher revs. this explains my intermittent power problems! Aside from ordering the DUI, what can I do? I have new wires, a new cap and a new rotor! Their big cap conversion would probably solve my issue...but it does not fit the FE Dizzy...go figure. I actually ordered it, and found out afterwards that the FE dizzy is an "exception".
ahhhrrgggggg
I think if I can resolve this ignition problem, the truck will be wicked fast!
It looks to be at fuall advance by 2500rpm. It's only at about 32 BTDC at max advance. The return is working. Initial advance is just be ow 20 BTDC. So, I think I need t ogo to the next smaller stop bushing on the MSD Dizzy to get the total advance a few degrees higher.
But the real problem, after a second or so at higher RMPs, the timing starts to jump around. I think that there is a cross-talk problem at higher revs. this explains my intermittent power problems! Aside from ordering the DUI, what can I do? I have new wires, a new cap and a new rotor! Their big cap conversion would probably solve my issue...but it does not fit the FE Dizzy...go figure. I actually ordered it, and found out afterwards that the FE dizzy is an "exception".
ahhhrrgggggg
I think if I can resolve this ignition problem, the truck will be wicked fast!
Senior User
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Timing
Are you using a dial back style timing light? It appears that you are by the posts above.
20 degrees initial seems like a lot. I don't have that much experience with the blue oval motors, but I would think you should change the stop bushing to get more than 12 degrees mechanical. Shoot for 20 to 26 from the Dizzy if you can get it.
I don't rely too much on initial timing other than getting a ball park and then calculating how much mechanical I'm getting. Most performance engines like to see 5-10 initial with 32-38 total.
Some of your other problems, running hot, hard starting, (dieseling??) are caused by too much initial timing.
Get a good baseline that gives you a reasonable amount of intial and total, then play with the springs to see what she likes best as far as how quickly the timing comes in.
Not to defend MSD, but my personal experience has been very good (knock on wood, cross my fingers). I'm running a 6-AL box, Blaster II coil (for 3 years and about 30k) and now a pro-billet dist. I had to mix springs to slow the curve down a bit from the factory settings, but I'm running relatively low compression (10.2) with a lot of duration (244/250 @.050)
20 degrees initial seems like a lot. I don't have that much experience with the blue oval motors, but I would think you should change the stop bushing to get more than 12 degrees mechanical. Shoot for 20 to 26 from the Dizzy if you can get it.
I don't rely too much on initial timing other than getting a ball park and then calculating how much mechanical I'm getting. Most performance engines like to see 5-10 initial with 32-38 total.
Some of your other problems, running hot, hard starting, (dieseling??) are caused by too much initial timing.
Get a good baseline that gives you a reasonable amount of intial and total, then play with the springs to see what she likes best as far as how quickly the timing comes in.
Not to defend MSD, but my personal experience has been very good (knock on wood, cross my fingers). I'm running a 6-AL box, Blaster II coil (for 3 years and about 30k) and now a pro-billet dist. I had to mix springs to slow the curve down a bit from the factory settings, but I'm running relatively low compression (10.2) with a lot of duration (244/250 @.050)
Posting Guru
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 2,117
Likes: 0
From: Evanston, WY
"20 degrees initial seems like a lot."
I agree. With your cam and stuff Greg, I can't imagine having it that high. You would be up in the same neighborhood as I am.
The problem with your numbers is this; you have the same dizzy I do, and there is no way to tune it to give 20/32 like you said. They come with 18,21,25 and 28 degree stop bushings. The largest bushing, an 18, on top of 20 initial gives 38. I think a good starting point for you would be 10 initial, and the red stop bushing (28) for a 10/38 with one light silver and one light blue spring. This should have you all in by 3000. Tune from there. If, indeed, you have 20/32 then there is something wrong.
-Scouder
I agree. With your cam and stuff Greg, I can't imagine having it that high. You would be up in the same neighborhood as I am.
The problem with your numbers is this; you have the same dizzy I do, and there is no way to tune it to give 20/32 like you said. They come with 18,21,25 and 28 degree stop bushings. The largest bushing, an 18, on top of 20 initial gives 38. I think a good starting point for you would be 10 initial, and the red stop bushing (28) for a 10/38 with one light silver and one light blue spring. This should have you all in by 3000. Tune from there. If, indeed, you have 20/32 then there is something wrong.
-Scouder