"medeoker" ?

There may be a particular issue with your stock trans file and it's tunability. I'm getting all positive feedback on the shifting. You should call superchips for an RA number so it can be worked out before you give up and try another product. It may be as simple as a re-flash.

 

Unfortunately, tuning a vehicle isn't so cut and dry.
There isn't an "add HP" button.

Take it to the track.....run both (or all) products, drive both.....keep the one you like.

 

150 HP falls between the gain at peak and peak gain.
It's in the peak range, and only slightly off peak. The "peak gains" are over 200HP in some places.
If I measure by "gain at peak" and only there (that magic number many dynos throw at you and what everyone is looking for), it shows 120HP at the tire, STP corrected with a 5th gear pull vs a stock 5th gear pull. SAE correction would show 110-115 HP and if you do a 3rd gear pull, you may see only 90 to 100 becuase the rolls are spinning to freely with the effective gearing to create enough load to reach peak boost soon enough.

This is not a "muddy" explanation. This is an attempt to make something VERY technical a little easier to understand. I'm making it about as lay-termed as it can be without skewing the point.

Tuning and accurate power measurement is not simple and it's certainly not clear unless you have studied it.

It's not as simple as "look, the damn thing makes power".

OK..so it makes power. Where and when does it make power? What load % does it make peak power in each gear? Ok...now what will make it perform best on the street? At what point will increased or decreased load increase or decrease power output?

Look up the standards for SAE and STP correction.
Look up what challenges come into play with inertia power measurement on vehicles equipped with turbochargers.

Why does load affect power output?
Why does the more load equal more power (to an extent)?
Why does the street create more load than inertia power measurement?
(If the street could measure HP, it would show more than an inertia dyno because of LOAD).
Rev your truck in neutral...it wont make boost.
Throw it in gear and it makes boost.
Ok, so more load equals more boost, right?
Right, at least until it hits other limiting factors (wastegate control, boost controllers, etc...depending on what vehicle we are talking about).

This is why power will be different on an inertia dyno in every gear.
The LOAD will be different in every gear.
Then you have the issue with trans effective ratio.
Only 5th is a 1:1 ratio on these trucks, and a 1:1 ratio s the only way to get "accurate" power measurement.

This isn't "above anyones head", it's simply a subject most are ignorant with because they have not taken the time to study how it all works. This is a HUGE subject and I could write pages upon pages about it.

Go do some homework and my explanations will make a heck of a lot more sense.

I mentioned that on an inertia dyno, the only way to replicate anything close to street load is with a 5th gear constant lockup pull?

You guys doing 3rd gear pulls aren't getting accurate power measurement.

We could talk of all this until the cows come home, but you are right....it's a great product and the numbers show up at the track.
Take a truck that runs 16-17's in the 1/4 and get it in the mid 14's wth only tuning?
What? Mileage gains too...and better than stock drivability>
Are you kidding me?
Sign me up =o)

 

Sorry Vic, he already bought a SC, I was trying to save the latest purchase for Ken. I have no interest in what they buy as long as it benefits Ken. We all get to use this forum for free so we help him where we can. I hate to see people waste their money on those boxes and risk their trucks.

 

As does the 1704.

Ok........I have to say I'm getting mildly irritated with some of the attacks and snide remarks.
Bob...we all know you love your Predator. You're not going to 'bait' me into continually interjecting your posts (though I will today to make a point).
If you noticed, the Predator does have it's own thread.
Do you see me over there shoving the 1704 in their faces?
There are many Predator owners who have dumped their Predator for a 1704.
I'm not over in their thread throwing this in their faces.

Lets grow up a little, mmmmmk?

two things:

#1 Marketing will release the dyno information.....this is not my job and it is out of my hands.

#2 As mentioned, I'm here in my spare time out of the goodness of my heart.
If I feel this is no longer a positive experience, I WILL abandon this thread until the nonsense stops (or altogether if it doesn't stop)

If some of my explanations are beyond you understanding and you want to challenge them....go study. There is a plethora of information online., in books, etc...
At this point you can exit your short-attention-span theatre, and actualy ask a productive question.

People tend to attack anything they don't understand....and by "don't" it usually means "won't" because they are too busy throwing beer cans at the television to do a little reading =o)

Generally speaking, people are not stupid.....they are just too lazy to be smart.

 

By the way, Adams and I both are over here encouraging people to buy your tuner. No one wants them to be successful more than us because if they prove to be better overall than the ones we have, we will buy one, I shopped for your product first because I had one on a Mustang that I liked. It was worth about 40 HP. For a stock Mustang, that is a lot. A good blower is worth 75 - 100 HP and costs $3,000.
Don't get down on me cause I didn't hold out 6 months. I can afford both. I am over here watching for the same kind of reviews the P thread has. When I see success, I will buy one and do a dyno comparason.

 

Just to let you guys know I sent my STC Fed EX for an update on Monday because my truck was newer than the tuner and it came back today (Thursday) UPS red label no charge. Now thats customer service. keep it up good work!!

 

If you will go back and read the posts, I was not the one complaining or making snide comments. I was trying to understand the difference in the way hp numbers can be displayed.
I am on your side in this to the degree that i'm on Ken's side.(only slightly different) We want the people to buy your product, secondly we want them to buy some product from Ken. Most of these people are friends that visit all the 6.0 threads . None are vicious making attacks against you or SC. If they do, we do our best to straighten them out.
There was one this morning that was upset about not having the numbers.
We may kid around but we like you and your product and support what you are doing. Sorry if I said anything to upset you.

I have not the base of knowledge to challenge you, that is why I never have.
I haven't even asked you a question in quite some time.

How have I attacked you? I think you read my name in the middle of the drivel that happened this morning and afternoon and somehow got the Idea that I attacked you.. Go back and check again. You will find I always defend you.

 

I think both Bob and Vic have been extremely helpful...at least for me. I currently have the Predator and run it in the 65 99% of the time. It works and performs well in my truck...EGTs, etc. are all better than good. Even with the Predator, I would like a little more low end and use less pedal for power. Overall, I am satisfied and have received some great advice and have been educated above my intellect on this subject.

I have been interested in the 1704 for a couple of reasons, the first of which has been Vic taking an incredible amount of time answering questions. I have never seen that with Diablo and frankly, it produces more confidence. Secondly, I have been curious about the drivability claims of the 1704 and the fact that there is no learning when you change programs.

I am grateful for the research, time, and information we share. It is my hope to try a 1704 due to the fact that I have some horse and boat pullers through a local dealership I am going to recommend get one or the other.

Finally, let me again say thanks for all the information and the manner in which it is communicated here.

 

I've noticed the same thing as JCROMAN. Running stock, the shifts were like butter. MPG in the normal range.

Running with the SC in economy mode, the shifts are very harsh to the point of clunking on light or medium acceleration. WOT is a different issue, but I installed the SC to improve MPG more than anything. So far, that's not working out either. But it's still early. I think highway mileage may be a little better, but with the later shift points at higher RPM, my around town mileage dropped way off.

I chose the SC over the others mostly because I wasn't into performance and gauges and EGT. I wanted a better tune and higher mileage. I'm certainly unable to compare models and uninterested in any flame war. I just want to get what I paid for.

Not giving up, looking for help.

 

Vic,

After driving a few a few thousand miles with the 1704 in Economy mode (03/03 build F250 CC FX4 3.73 gears, 13000 miles, November flash) I have made the following observations:

1. Shifting is overly harsh at light throttle.
2. Shift points seem too high at light throttle.
3. Empty mpg has decreased from 18.2 to 16.5 (a lot of stop and go driving in 35 mph speed zone and some interstate, same trip every day)
4. Shifts pulling 4200lb toy hauler are much smoother.
5. MPG pulling toy hauler at 70mph has increased from 11.7 to14.1.
6. Mpg empty at 70mph seems about the same 18.2 - 18.6.
7. Power both empy and loaded is AWESOME!

I think city mpg would be increased considerably if shift points at light throttle were lower. Overall shifting is very similar to running empty in Tow Haul mode after system has learned with my 4200lb trailer. I'm sure it's not easy to reach a happy median between performance and economy, but with your expertise I know you will overcome some of these minor irritants. I doo love my SC tuner and would buy it again. Thanks for your time and efforts.

 

Just an observation, is not one and two a preferences to you.

 

This is good stuff and the kind of information most of us need to make a buying decision.

 

I think that there must be something wrong with your truck or your tuner.

I've had my SC MT for about 400 miles now and have been running all of the time in the performance tune. I'll go back and try the econo/tow safe tune on the next tank of fuel.

I've found the driveability to be quite good. I agree that the shifts at light throttle are more crisp than stock, sometimes to the point of harshness but generally I don't find them annoying. The shift point in the mid 30's MPH range under light throttle is higher than it used to be but I generally drive through that and rarely find it bothersome. Could it be lowered a bit, probably.

As far as pedel depression to access the power, I haven't found that to be much of a problem. The majority of the time I'm driving around, I don't want to access a ton of extra power, I don't want to lay rubber off the line each time I leave a stop light. However, if I want to access the power to pass someone or for other reasons, it is right there and I just need to press down on the pedel a bit more, not to the floor. If I want all the power, then I'll use all the pedel and go ahead and mash it to the floor.

I am not dissatisfied with the performance in terms of power gain. It seems to be quite a lot. Now maybe if I removed the tune and loaded one from the Predator I might notice more or less absolute power. A seat of the pants meter isn't very accurate. I do agree with Vic in that it is the off peak area where the stock truck was loosing power where you really feel the difference. The SC is still making great power, so the area under the curve in that RPM range must be quite large.

That is why we need the dyno numbers and more ET ticket reports from the 1/4 and 1/8 mile tracks - though I don't think that the truck really comes into its own in only 1/8 of a mile.

If, however, it turns out that the SC only makes the same as the Predator and not 150 HP, I will still be satisfied, because it is still an amazing thing for either of them to produce that much power gain for the $$.

I look forward to the first pull with my trailer, because ultimately that's why I bought a tuner.

Daryl

 

Real world observation…good stuff!