Superchips 6.0 Microtuner Thread
Post Fiend
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 11,314
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Jamie - Have your coolant overflow cap pressure checked...
a lot of them only hold about 5 lbs of pressure when they should hold 15 lbs...
and YES any performance upgrade could generate more pressure - after all EGT's are up, wouldn't you think coolant temp is up as well...
You can't blame an upgrade for a problem if the problem exist n stock trucks :-)
Well, I guess you can, but it may not be a correct extrapolation of dati
a lot of them only hold about 5 lbs of pressure when they should hold 15 lbs...
and YES any performance upgrade could generate more pressure - after all EGT's are up, wouldn't you think coolant temp is up as well...
You can't blame an upgrade for a problem if the problem exist n stock trucks :-)
Well, I guess you can, but it may not be a correct extrapolation of dati
Junior User
Joined: Nov 2003
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Originally Posted by Vic_Ferrari
37 MPH, 1800-2000 RPM
Would 1600-1700 RPM be better?
I'd like to take a mini-poll here.
What would you guys prefer?
Would 1600-1700 RPM be better?
I'd like to take a mini-poll here.
What would you guys prefer?
One more comment, the shift into 3rd is a little harsh at very low acceleration.
Kevin
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2004
Posts: 128
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Originally Posted by PSD 60L Fx4
Enough with dyno numbers...i want to see some quarter mile times. I have a hard time believing that the predator will touch the SC down the strip; as the extra powerband on the SC should lay waste to the much more stock powerband of the predator.
And by the way for anyone who cares, I have found a nice trick for awesome off the line accel with the SC unit. Being that the SC is a little slow on the low end takeoff, i am putting my 4x4 to good use. From a dead stop, you can shift into 4wd (this is assuming you have shift on the fly), hold the brakes and rev the motor to about 2000 rpm (it stalls somewhere about 2100, 1900 is usually what i go to) and just let off the brake. It will sling your head back into the seat. After you get out of first and second gear, just drop the 4 wheel drive back to 2 wheel drive. And yes, it will shift under WOT. This technique works GREAT for launching.
And by the way for anyone who cares, I have found a nice trick for awesome off the line accel with the SC unit. Being that the SC is a little slow on the low end takeoff, i am putting my 4x4 to good use. From a dead stop, you can shift into 4wd (this is assuming you have shift on the fly), hold the brakes and rev the motor to about 2000 rpm (it stalls somewhere about 2100, 1900 is usually what i go to) and just let off the brake. It will sling your head back into the seat. After you get out of first and second gear, just drop the 4 wheel drive back to 2 wheel drive. And yes, it will shift under WOT. This technique works GREAT for launching.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2004
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Originally Posted by Vic_Ferrari
Bob...get a life, will ya ;o)
poke, poke.
I'm aware of your numbers.
I'm also aware everyone has a different "method of testing".
Tim/Ken,
Will this article/comparison feature comments on drivability, tow files, fuel economy, etc ?
That very truck you guys saw it St Louis made 2MPG better than stock running the ECON file pulling a trailer on the way to that event (Orlando to St Louis).
As for the race against the other truck...close race!....it's still apples to oranges.
These trucks can vary by a second stock.
Very often, the dualies are faster...stock and modified.
I've had some of the most fun in R&D with dualies, as a matter of fact =o)
Better traction, different gearing, different weight distribution, etc...
It needs to be both products on the same truck at the same place on the same night under at least somewhat controlled contitions for uniformity.
This test will need to be repeated many times with other peoples trucks to see the correct trend and see who really is the 1/4 mile 'out of the box' champ.
I will be at Orlando Speed World (Bithlo) Wednesday night wth a guy that owns an inline device, a 1704 and Predator.
His personal favorite is the 1704, dut to its incredible drivability, tire smokin burnouts, long power band, and based on the fact that it's the only thing his truck hasn't spewed coolant with yet =o)
No drivability issues, no funky sounds, no shifting problems, low EGT's, powerband is smooth as silk, towing is top notch and the fuel economy gains are real.
What more could you ask for overall?
poke, poke.
I'm aware of your numbers.
I'm also aware everyone has a different "method of testing".
Tim/Ken,
Will this article/comparison feature comments on drivability, tow files, fuel economy, etc ?
That very truck you guys saw it St Louis made 2MPG better than stock running the ECON file pulling a trailer on the way to that event (Orlando to St Louis).
As for the race against the other truck...close race!....it's still apples to oranges.
These trucks can vary by a second stock.
Very often, the dualies are faster...stock and modified.
I've had some of the most fun in R&D with dualies, as a matter of fact =o)
Better traction, different gearing, different weight distribution, etc...
It needs to be both products on the same truck at the same place on the same night under at least somewhat controlled contitions for uniformity.
This test will need to be repeated many times with other peoples trucks to see the correct trend and see who really is the 1/4 mile 'out of the box' champ.
I will be at Orlando Speed World (Bithlo) Wednesday night wth a guy that owns an inline device, a 1704 and Predator.
His personal favorite is the 1704, dut to its incredible drivability, tire smokin burnouts, long power band, and based on the fact that it's the only thing his truck hasn't spewed coolant with yet =o)
No drivability issues, no funky sounds, no shifting problems, low EGT's, powerband is smooth as silk, towing is top notch and the fuel economy gains are real.
What more could you ask for overall?
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 288
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I have to concur with blown 5.4 I was there too,(world ford challange). I talked to superchips custom inc. they are diffrent than superchip. Same owners diffrent companies they told me that thier chip is more powerful than the regular superchip 1704. When I asked what Hp they were producing I was told 80 HP at the rear tires. ???? WAIT wait just a minute, Vic Ferrari says that they're tuner produces 150 RWHP!!! Responce, who's Vic Ferrari? Superchips puts out 150 HP at the crank not the rear wheels. We take the superchips program and custom tune it for more power,we get more HP at the rear wheels than any other tuner. That was the conversation I had at the superchips custom booth. Diablo trucks did run what blown 5.4 said my buddy has video to prove it. hope this helps jerry.
Freshman User
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 31
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From: Northern Michigan
Got my SC programmer Friday (yes I bought it here), put in medium chip (Tow Safe) first impression not much change noticed. When I put a SC program in my 2002 7.3 it felt more responsive but it could be like Vic said the throttle position is changed by some programs. When I pushed the pedal farther it did take off and GO! I changed to the Performance (150HP) chip Sunday and yes it is very impressive, have not drove it a lot but seems to have as much power or more than my chipped 7.3.
But the real test will come this weekend, because I bought the tuner as well as the truck for towing my 10,000 pound race trailer. I have my pyrometer mounted and will report back Monday on drivability, power, EGTs, mileage etc. I am only going about 250 miles but will be able to get some initial test data.
All the drag race information is good but I bought the truck to tow my race car to the track I did not buy the truck to race.
Tom
04 SC SB 4X4 6.0 auto 3-04 build date
But the real test will come this weekend, because I bought the tuner as well as the truck for towing my 10,000 pound race trailer. I have my pyrometer mounted and will report back Monday on drivability, power, EGTs, mileage etc. I am only going about 250 miles but will be able to get some initial test data.
All the drag race information is good but I bought the truck to tow my race car to the track I did not buy the truck to race.
Tom
04 SC SB 4X4 6.0 auto 3-04 build date
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 1997
Posts: 23,165
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From: Enjoying the real world.
Tim is not involved in my article, though he does have both tuners. Driveability will be tough to gauge because its so subjective. Shift firmness can be determined by seat of the pants. Smoke is an issue that can be verified by sight for each.
Fuel economy... that's a tough one to test. The problem is you have to have consistancy to measure mpg. The same tuner using the same power setting on the same road trip can vary mileage based on air temp, road temp, etc. Fuel economy will require a long term test of two vehicles used in similar conditions. I'm really not sure how this can be accomplished unless someone has a fleet and the driver's rotate between vehicles. I do know, however, that both companies claim fuel economy. Based on feed back from Predator customers I know its true. Too soon to get much feedback with SCMT customers, but I'm sure they're probably going to see good gains as well.
The only real non-subjective tests at this time that I can do are on a dyno. We'll be doing a dyno day this summer with a number of trucks.
Fuel economy... that's a tough one to test. The problem is you have to have consistancy to measure mpg. The same tuner using the same power setting on the same road trip can vary mileage based on air temp, road temp, etc. Fuel economy will require a long term test of two vehicles used in similar conditions. I'm really not sure how this can be accomplished unless someone has a fleet and the driver's rotate between vehicles. I do know, however, that both companies claim fuel economy. Based on feed back from Predator customers I know its true. Too soon to get much feedback with SCMT customers, but I'm sure they're probably going to see good gains as well.
The only real non-subjective tests at this time that I can do are on a dyno. We'll be doing a dyno day this summer with a number of trucks.
Senior User
Joined: Apr 2004
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Originally Posted by jdadamsjr
Oh Salesmen - Salesmen - Salesmen!
Thread Starter
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Post Fiend
Joined: Jan 1997
Posts: 23,165
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From: Enjoying the real world.
I'm going to bow out of this thread for now --- too much chance for hostility. I sell both products lines and there's no denying both are great. My dyno article, if I can find the time to wrap it up, will speak for itself and I think each customer will be the best judge of what is right for them. It boils down to: are you happy with it?
Posting Guru
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Lake Mary, FL
Originally Posted by $trokin60
I have to concur with blown 5.4 I was there too,(world ford challange). I talked to superchips custom inc. they are diffrent than superchip. Same owners diffrent companies they told me that thier chip is more powerful than the regular superchip 1704. When I asked what Hp they were producing I was told 80 HP at the rear tires. ???? WAIT wait just a minute, Vic Ferrari says that they're tuner produces 150 RWHP!!!
Responce, who's Vic Ferrari?
Superchips puts out 150 HP at the crank not the rear wheels. We take the superchips program and custom tune it for more power,we get more HP at the rear wheels than any other tuner. That was the conversation I had at the superchips custom booth. Diablo trucks did run what blown 5.4 said my buddy has video to prove it. hope this helps jerry.
Responce, who's Vic Ferrari?
Superchips puts out 150 HP at the crank not the rear wheels. We take the superchips program and custom tune it for more power,we get more HP at the rear wheels than any other tuner. That was the conversation I had at the superchips custom booth. Diablo trucks did run what blown 5.4 said my buddy has video to prove it. hope this helps jerry.
Superchips Custom has not yet seen the dyno sheets from Inc...
Superchips Inc and Superchips custom are in fact two separate companies and separate ownership.
The two companies share information, and this is of great benefit to both.
Everyone at SCT is great, and we've shared some 6.0L info with each other.
The relationship works very well.
I believe (don't quote me on this) the 'performance' file SCT sells they advertise at 135 HP at the tire?
I haven't compared it in a controlled test to the 1704 Performance file, but they are similar in many aspects.
Remember, 15 HP is more than within the margin of difference for method of testing, so this doesn't mean cut and dry that their file make 15 HP less. It may make a few more....it would need to be tested in a controlled situation.
Remember, everyone has a different method of testing, and there are many test files floating around out there at the tracks.
Different places have different dynos can be different by as much as 20% or more from each other in terms of actual power measurement.
In case you noticed..."Vic_Ferrari" is an alias. They know me by my real name, and only a few know me by my nick. I keep my real name off the forums because I CAN NOT take the time to receive calls.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 161,999
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From: 3rd Rock
Vic you bring up the one area that is of major concern to me. I test on a dyno constantly (no it is not a 6.0, in-fact NO similarities at all) that notwithstanding………the control and methodology of testing is the crux of this problem. I do not care if it is a V-8, or diesel or whatever there are to many variables to be comparing HP/TQ…….oil temp alone can and will cause variances in the results. Something as simple as oil temp…..
I will continue to read this thread…………with allot of concern.
I will continue to read this thread…………with allot of concern.
FTE Leadership Emeritus
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 161,999
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From: 3rd Rock
As Ken has stated so eloquently “I'm going to bow out of this thread for now --- too much chance for hostility”. I will ask all whom participate in this thread, to NOT start anything AT ALL.
You know what I am taking about, this could be a contentious issue, and so lets keep it good clean and very informative information.
This is great stuff…………I appreciate the support.
Senior User
Joined: Oct 2003
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First off I would like to appologize to Vic Ferrarri ( I know that is an Alliase) and Superchips. I was'nt trying to run you down. I was just stating what I saw at WFC. I was trying to bring to light the fact that I think both of these tuners (Diablo predater and superchips 1704) are pretty close to each other performance wise on the track. I have the Predater installed in my truck. It works well, but I would like to see lower EGT's, and not have antifreeze blow out of the degas bottle. If I could afford it I would evaluate one of each of the modules/tuners and run the one that I like the best. I am in the Army I am not a salesman. Since most people are like me and dont have a lot of cash to play with, We try to get educated from people that have used the equipment or have seen it perform. As far as what superchips custom tuning inc said @ WFC that was just an employee trying to sell his product by hyping it up. That's just the nature of the bussiness. From what I have seen of dyno numbers I think there are to many varibles to give an accurate reading of HP/TQ numbers to the general public. I like the way Banks does theres, they put out dyno numbers, quarter mile times, 0-60 MPH time, how many second were knocked of of an incline tow with x amount of load and a couple other that I cant remember.